Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 14:29:01 -0500 From: Shawn Webb <shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org> To: Allan Jude <allanjude@freebsd.org> Cc: cem@freebsd.org, Slawa Olhovchenkov <slw@zxy.spb.ru>, svn-src-head@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, src-committers <src-committers@freebsd.org>, Bart??omiej Rutkowski <robak@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: svn commit: r314036 - head/usr.sbin/bsdinstall/scripts Message-ID: <20170222192901.y4ulonfnlamqmapc@mutt-hbsd> In-Reply-To: <457783d7-def2-3970-f180-58697a156423@freebsd.org> References: <201702210937.v1L9bY6V093836@repo.freebsd.org> <28a4cf5e-2edd-3e30-9ecd-817f886e9ea3@FreeBSD.org> <20170221144002.GA87822@FreeBSD.org> <CAGFrfxaoQccZAt%2BRowF2eH5TS0poJUojhHMe=JFfutwoabhBDQ@mail.gmail.com> <20170222112335.GA29481@ymer.vnode.se> <CAG6CVpXhEStzrORrOEgpdZ_8p%2BNN8WL_ob18D2927Mkp2CS36A@mail.gmail.com> <20170222180541.GG15630@zxy.spb.ru> <CAG6CVpW=QbTwC%2BkRx4K2WJ5GJsA72_ZHZpOMrJs9BTw5q1KX7A@mail.gmail.com> <457783d7-def2-3970-f180-58697a156423@freebsd.org>
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--3zdgbykcuvelxock Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 02:23:26PM -0500, Allan Jude wrote: > On 2017-02-22 13:13, Conrad Meyer wrote: > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 10:05 AM, Slawa Olhovchenkov <slw@zxy.spb.ru> w= rote: > >> On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 08:11:14AM -0800, Conrad Meyer wrote: > >> > >>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 3:23 AM, Joel Dahl <joel@vnode.se> wrote: > >>>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 07:56:52AM +0000, Bart??omiej Rutkowski wrot= e: > >>>>> I strongly believe we should, by default, ship as secured and harde= ned as > >>>>> possible in order to improve overall security of new users installa= tions. > >>>>> Power users will and do change the OS as they please, they most lik= ely > >>>>> don't use bsdinstall in first place, so they're not affected in any= way. > >>>> > >>>> Sorry, I strongly disagree with that. I'm most likely a "power user"= and I use > >>>> bsdinstall. > >>> > >>> Ditto. I'm also unfamiliar enough with the installer to trip on this > >>> kind of thing. Slawa's proposed "disable all" option would be fine. > >> > >> My english not enought fluent for more explicate proposal, from my > >> point most of this options do hardened in only limited cases, for > >> other cases same options do system more un-hardened by force working > >> as root. Some have unevident effects (/tmp cleaning, for example). > >=20 > > Yep. I am not concerned about disabling sendmail or remote syslog by > > default, though. > >=20 > >> For many users this options will be source of weird issuses (gdb don't > >> work? fucking ugly freebsd! migrate to linux). > >=20 > > Yeah, I am concerned about this too. (Also: "ps doesn't work" would > > be a big newbie sysadmin headache.) > >=20 > >> This is evil trend of enforcing weird solutions under the auspices of > >> 'my safety': airport security check, backgound check on every point, > >> lawfull intercept, block access to hardware management in safety > >> enviroment by 'leak ecnription'. I am enoght smart for self-sufficient > >> security risk assessment! > >> > >> Industry already have at some "hardened" BSD: OpenBSD and HardenedBSD. > >> Waht about market share? > >=20 > > Best, > > Conrad > >=20 >=20 > Yeah, a think a number of these options are good, but a bunch are no go. > I do not want something deleting my files from /tmp unexpectedly. TrueOS > has that on by default, and it has eaten useful files a few too many time= s. >=20 > Breaking gdb should NOT be on by default either. >=20 > For some of the others, having them on by default in bsdinstall might be > a good way to 'test' the features under a wider user load, before we > switch the defaults for the sysctls. FYI: HardenedBSD has had the sysctl nodes set for a while now (> 1 year). The only "gotcha" moment we've had is with ASAN requiring the ability to determine memory maps, which is broken by setting security.bsd.unprivileged_proc_debug to 0. HardenedBSD has also set security.bsd.hardlink_check_gid and security.bsd.hardlink_check_uid both to 1. Thanks, --=20 Shawn Webb Cofounder and Security Engineer HardenedBSD GPG Key ID: 0x6A84658F52456EEE GPG Key Fingerprint: 2ABA B6BD EF6A F486 BE89 3D9E 6A84 658F 5245 6EEE --3zdgbykcuvelxock Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEKrq2ve9q9Ia+iT2eaoRlj1JFbu4FAlit5nkACgkQaoRlj1JF bu6pYRAAgpfHtLasls9cJDlQEaudYn8ZrT9EJchKpucRTHiIirIksrjIN08cK8/m zBn6myLGa8TGJettZjfzot8x0g/9OrUfjkpk59682BNSf9k+5Zq7HzuXKfaf0NeB /baJBp6e7mwFv7V9Ijq67qOsEMAUoeUOb20XHAtbOZ4ZfEDNi6LLZAXpRHxvWRek x2yUWAMQtazMboM/4MTfD9tD/gFQSfGYVfKBXjqW2ajSF/17ws3dcEPL6QHznwlj T3tU5lUeGWUCCeoPhTGGpCf2g5CqvOC160+exQMGszT8IdAUdxezdOTWyaYSYqty qFIQhGXNeIq5Is/+oDiNaStSme6L1wFTCGMXXOlqHmYUWX7zxEJxAh6/H2mC4CIR NXzZHLo93PNrNdTC97J/dkXmqnpoLVcHWq46d1NTx9auvl3Ed5sSUq+Ois9k5zrz FiH6xvSX1lwAv1eKtHQ5FwOBqCFaHM11bI8eod9kZAQdZX8id2tbxyemZ2VT7Sks 8cXo8w6eeNwfFrk+8sl+OhxUrVWg1h7zeFReckgP3JtymnyGGIHAerhE4PIW1aXJ l2JXlensejUBzZ8RGt3GE7Pf7kVeDbkuXQkbJnUi4N9Lt97si/OHUfFgsEh9SczH u2MB54fLCBqmTKM9vUuT4Ok1w6X+F0xdCAa1iHumySiLGBR0LXw= =bX6S -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --3zdgbykcuvelxock--
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