From owner-cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 4 21:35:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cvs-all@freebsd.org Delivered-To: cvs-all@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82D5E16A4DE; Fri, 4 Aug 2006 21:35:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from mail32.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail32.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.63]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EF4743D76; Fri, 4 Aug 2006 21:35:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c220-239-19-236.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.19.236]) by mail32.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k74LZEmS017994 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Sat, 5 Aug 2006 07:35:15 +1000 Received: from turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k74LZEDC050146; Sat, 5 Aug 2006 07:35:14 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id k74LZEHF050145; Sat, 5 Aug 2006 07:35:14 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 07:35:14 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Marcel Moolenaar Message-ID: <20060804213514.GA760@turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <200608030959.k739x9N6007207@repoman.freebsd.org> <44D22E2F.4070307@errno.com> <20060803180854.GI97316@comp.chem.msu.su> <200608031458.01134.jhb@freebsd.org> <20060804070348.GR97316@comp.chem.msu.su> <6B15CBE0-00E0-4F64-A652-4A4B614975C2@xcllnt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6B15CBE0-00E0-4F64-A652-4A4B614975C2@xcllnt.net> X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 Cc: cvs-src@freebsd.org, src-committers@freebsd.org, cvs-all@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/net if_vlan.c X-BeenThere: cvs-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: CVS commit messages for the entire tree List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 21:35:28 -0000 --oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 2006-Aug-04 09:23:52 -0700, Marcel Moolenaar wrote: >So, putting the kdb_backtrace() under KDB is not a matter of said >function not being present without KDB, it's that we don't want >to emit backtraces when debugging is not enabled. Backtraces are >a debugging tool and it makes sense to emit them only when the >kernel is configured for debugging. I'm not sure this follows. Consider the average end-user who has hir system spit out a "something has gone screwy" error. They post the message into one of the FreeBSD lists and are then told that they need to rebuild their kernel with KDB and DDB, reproduce the error, maybe issue a few magic incantations and post the result. Making backtraces either unconditional or run-time conditional (ie a sysctl to enable/disable them) should remove one interation through the mailing lists and improve the quality of support as seen by users. One of the drivers for DTrace was the view that you can't separate debugging and production because the difficult problems only occur in a production environment. Therefore you need to have a production system that has all your debugging tools available but with no debugging overheads until a problem occurs. IMHO, having kdb_backtrace() invoked unconditionally is a step towards this (as is having debug versions of -RELEASE kernels available). --=20 Peter Jeremy --oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFE072R/opHv/APuIcRAqo1AJ0eTgQfVcWQId262HVpa73omKQTNgCeIqkd KYHvM7I7YcoEaKrfrG6zEuw= =KUna -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI--