Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 21:59:48 +0700 From: Vadim Goncharov <vadim_nuclight@mail.ru> To: Nathan Whitehorn <nwhitehorn@freebsd.org> Cc: doceng@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, Team <re@freebsd.org>, FreeBSD Subject: Re: svn commit: r223897 - in head: release usr.sbin/bsdinstall/scripts Message-ID: <201107251459.p6PExnOn073763@kernblitz.nuclight.avtf.net> In-Reply-To: <4E230876.5050400@freebsd.org> References: <201107092301.p69N1sUp019626__19145.5060652972$1310252550$gmane$org@svn.freebsd.org> <201107121004.p6CA4apj070450@kernblitz.nuclight.avtf.net> <4E1C4955.7010206@freebsd.org> <201107151416.p6FEGQgQ018154@kernblitz.nuclight.avtf.net> <4E2054AF.2040701__44463.8588619002$1310741734$gmane$org@freebsd.org> <201107171242.p6HCgknb028607@kernblitz.nuclight.avtf.net> <4E230876.5050400@freebsd.org>
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Hi Nathan Whitehorn! On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 11:06:14 -0500; Nathan Whitehorn <nwhitehorn@freebsd.org> wrote: >>> as well as letting >>> people try out the operating system and expanding the range of system >>> functionality available to the installer. This takes space. Some of that >>> space is at the expense of other things, but I personally believe that >>> trade-off is very much worth while. >> This shouldn't trade off really. Is that stuff using geom_uzip(4) to save >> space? This is just as simple as doing mkuzip -v mfs_root.md and tweaking >> loader.conf for vfs.root.mountfrom, mfsroot_name and module loading. > The installation disks are also straight ISO9660 now. There is no > mdroot, so none of this is possible. Why? The mdroot has benefits, like of being able to switch disks, for example. And, the base system could be installed directly by copying LiveCD files from gzipped mdroot, not wasting space for another archive of the same files. >>> the release scripts and the installer. Presumably, the release will also >>> include a second CD (or DVD) full of packages, which will contain the >>> full handbook. >> That's also a variant, but the commit says about requirement to have network, >> not CD2, or am I missing something? > There isn't a CD2 anymore. Also, because there is no MDROOT, you can't > use a CD2 from the installer without two CD drives. But you write below "There will be on the second packages disk". How this could be if there is no CD2 ? Also, in the future there will arise need for DVD1 and DVD2, thus scheme with several disks chould be done sooner, with CDs. >>> The complication for the release building scripts is that >>> they generate finished ISOs, so anything that goes on the image must be >>> available to the script. The scripts no longer build packages of any >>> kind, and so building even one package substantially adds to their >>> complication. >> That's sounds strange - installation disks always included some packages. >> How it is done, then? > Package installation is treated as a post-install issue. With the > specific exception of the documentation installation, the installer > doesn't know anything about packages and can't install them. This sounds even more strange. How does it work, at all? Is there any publicly available docs about the new installer? Installing of packages have always been conceptually a part of installation process (though it should be availiable to run it any time later, too), so why installer can't do this? >>> I also personally think it's not required or even important to provide a >>> way to install the handbook from disc1. The main documentation format >>> for it is HTML, for which we package no readers on disc1. Additionally, >> There was also a .txt version earlier days. What about .txt version? Is it generated nowadays? >>> I'm guessing that basically all of our users read it on www.freebsd.org >>> these days instead of from /usr/local/share, which potentially makes it >>> superfluous to package it at all. Further, without the handbook, how >>> would a new user know to look for it at that path? >> The typical path is that user has heard about Handbook and even looked >> into a chapter or two on the site. Nobody reads entire Handbook before >> install, however (this is just impractical and boring), so he proceeds >> and then founds that there is no network in FreeBSD out-of-box for his >> particular ISP and he needs to read Handbook (and use mpd5 package) - >> but now there will be no Handbook, alas. > There will be on the second packages disk. The user may also have > another computer, have printed out bits of the handbook, be dual-booting > etc. Don't force user to do expensive things like printing, having another computer, etc. You have no right to do this. That's not an option, as it shrinks our userbase. Given current conditions - as there is 9.0 too soon - we are stuck with docs on the second packages disk (or DVD), as the only really available solution. This situation should be resolved before next release. > I know I've never used the installed handbook before (preferring > the online one), and didn't even know where it had installed itself to > until starting to work on the release-building code. Don't expect novice user to be like you. And I have actually used handbook from /usr/share in my first installation (and Internet there was only available via dial-up by winmodem not available in 4.x). -- WBR, Vadim Goncharov. ICQ#166852181 mailto:vadim_nuclight@mail.ru [Moderator of RU.ANTI-ECOLOGY][FreeBSD][http://antigreen.org][LJ:/nuclight]
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