) by elsa.codelab.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id F12F4D78CC; Tue, 25 Jun 2024 10:21:05 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=quip.cz; s=private; t=1719303665; bh=/HiWLtRxT68Woq6gW1wcCdhREa4Sx9RJ21aB2wNGm0U=; h=Date:Subject:To:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=WTlFgYJR+EXazsxmAkZEW7/MukXEuKxNXDzOeJafZA+yoEpBHju+x4kjMUuOdV9e8 5OBILXU6HusiLw4OnJ2av3TVP3MZwqq+ljmBMqqS6dEhLIFBrnIKfJkoGp55Qo/Bmr 9H8A/xVL0RauUXsICnICU5UzpnbBbGcgQjMTu5RM= Received: from [192.168.145.49] (ip-89-177-27-225.bb.vodafone.cz [89.177.27.225]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by elsa.codelab.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D644AD7890; Tue, 25 Jun 2024 10:21:04 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=quip.cz; s=private; t=1719303664; bh=/HiWLtRxT68Woq6gW1wcCdhREa4Sx9RJ21aB2wNGm0U=; h=Date:Subject:To:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=Bh3tG3DLjciGma38wAOWT/GPzxGSGocJMJcgOzdDyyRSTfiY4hU4AOy6d5t2s2WzP L1py1vq0aK9UNyU2rlPbTayeDa9ekcDTv+k8fyje0dUbMAdZBziQ2Vkv20db6FLesA gOJZDzQq3QUZL7I1xj/LFwliSw4KfB/LegzdzAq4= Message-ID: <088ebbb6-bd7f-4167-964f-9aa83d36c5e0@quip.cz> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2024 10:21:04 +0200 List-Id: Porting software to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-ports List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: git: 0668752 Revert "Framework: Introduce bsd.sponsor.mk" To: Harry Schmalzbauer , ports@freebsd.org References: Content-Language: cs-Cestina From: Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:42000, ipnet:94.124.104.0/21, country:CZ] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4W7d8B0tJMz4DXc On 25/06/2024 09:39, Harry Schmalzbauer wrote: >> Revert "Framework: Introduce bsd.sponsor.mk" >> >> This reverts commit 274cd4df4dcce0a9aa78da47bb6e35ab3dbcbf8c > > > See also: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D44487 > > >  In D44487#1014651, @mat wrote: > >> > >>         but we want users to stop using ports and use packagesPiotr > Kubaj wrote on > > This in fact *will force users into dependency hell like on Linux*. Pushing people to use packages sounds comical. Are we really talking about those packages that are not built at all, like Signal Desktop and many others? But I remain calm. We're still many years away from FreeBSD packages being where Linux packages have been for years. So anyone who wants a non-default version (PHP, Python, Perl...) still has to build their package set in Poudriere or use raw ports. > To use clear words: I dislike paternalism and general decisions made > under the hat of portmgr@ during the recent years. > There are plenty of Linux distributions doing it 'right' and making it > easy for 'the users'. > Please stop forcing FreeBSD into that direction - you will loose those > 'users' able and willing to dig deeper and improve/fix/extend software. > > There are portmgr@ people deleting foreign ports for no reason and now > _you_ decide that Gleb's bsd.sponsor.mk needs approval - Approval from > people who destroy one of the key principals of FreeBSD. > This is ridiculous. Users will need to approve portmgr@ decisions! Your > revert woulnd't get approval! > But better not to ask but to dictate of course. That way will allow > portmgr@ to continue dismantling FreeBSD from the inner. > > To return to the topic: > I liked the idea very much. > It is very important that skilled people are supported by their employer > to work on OpenSource projects, which directly or indirectly involves > FreeBSD. > Naming sponsors might attract more skilled people - not those looking > for arbitrary company paying them their bills, but those enthusiasts and > smart ones, who have chosen FreeBSD instead of any fancy Linux > distribution, because on FreeBSD it's much easier to participate or add > customization in a sensible and fertile manner. > ports/ was and still is a very important entrance. FreeBSD will decay if > it only has consumers! (and if ports/ is continued to be made > distracting users) > If there are only paid people left to do the work, FreeBSD won't > improve, simply because there will be much less creative, fresh and > individual ideas! This especially would harm FreeBSD since it hasn't > billions to spend just add human resources by try'n'error. > (Look at any commercial software product after 10 years evolution with > paid people - now name ONE, which is better today than it was 10 years > ago. Better for the customer/user, not for the vendor! As time goes by, > the advantage relation will turn imho, but that's another topic) > > Naming sponsors imho improves the willingness of employers trying out > active OpenSource partnerships and allowing their employees to spend > time not only on CONSUMING OpenSource, but on participating. This can be > for mutual benefit. OpenSource doesn't work with consumers only, and > supplier resources aren't available for free! > Sponsorship naming was always an appreciated additional meta info. > > If you need time to lift this to be beneficial for packages too, take > your time, but don't remove it just because _you_ or portmgr@ as a whole > want users to force using packages. Please stop dictating FreeBSD users! > >