From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Jan 29 22:03:39 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19CE01F90FD for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2020 22:03:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from greg@unrelenting.technology) Received: from out.migadu.com (out.migadu.com [91.121.223.63]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.migadu.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 487HYj41H0z4Ghw for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2020 22:03:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from greg@unrelenting.technology) Received: (Migadu outbound); Wed, 29 Jan 2020 22:03:35 +0000 Received: from wms1-eu-central.migadu.com (wms1-eu-central.migadu.com [172.104.244.218]) by out.migadu.com (Haraka/2.8.16) with ESMTPSA id 8A0D711F-DCBB-48C3-960F-CB596B2EEADD.1 envelope-from (authenticated bits=0) (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2020 22:03:35 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 22:03:34 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: RainLoop/1.12.1 From: greg@unrelenting.technology Message-ID: <85883a5a552a2d28b279e9281da660a7@unrelenting.technology> Subject: Re: arm64 as Tier 1 for FreeBSD 13 To: "Rodney W. Grimes" , "Poul-Henning Kamp" Cc: "freebsd-arm" , "Emmanuel Vadot" , "Robert Clausecker" , "freebsd-arch" In-Reply-To: <202001292142.00TLgV9N066161@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> References: <202001292142.00TLgV9N066161@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; bh=vUK+M+piiMjAQeehjpt31tI8y6yeiL8YfTKXZki2jmg=; c=relaxed/simple; d=unrelenting.technology; h=from:subject:date:to; s=default; b=gNDBvQoGwBbYY0mrjjtXlCG9It5F1j1j8jJM1u1OpLUyj6/0muu1vT1MLUM1/Vk1gm/R1N0pnVdWB+cUX1Sq/W2RU6GKQQqY0X94h4ByEN0J65+gJPd0HPtAmdS7pUrqDcmgPHkjFoTvvVdD7sibgS89r/wSX0yOScwo0uWRHKI= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 487HYj41H0z4Ghw X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=unrelenting.technology header.s=default header.b=gNDBvQoG; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=unrelenting.technology; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of greg@unrelenting.technology designates 91.121.223.63 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=greg@unrelenting.technology X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.84 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[unrelenting.technology:s=default]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE(-1.84)[ip: (-9.80), ipnet: 91.121.0.0/16(-1.48), asn: 16276(2.07), country: FR(0.00)]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:91.121.223.63]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[unrelenting.technology:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[unrelenting.technology,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[63.223.121.91.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[63.223.121.91.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16276, ipnet:91.121.0.0/16, country:FR]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 17:10:45 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 22:03:39 -0000 January 30, 2020 12:42 AM, "Rodney W. Grimes" wrote:=0A=0A>> --------=0A>> In message <20200129222907.3ccaf4c23fe8= 509e3f9cdfe4@bidouilliste.net>, Emmanuel Vadot writes:=0A>> =0A>> RPi's a= re a LOT easier to get hold of for hackers and in particular=0A>> for edu= cators.=0A>> =0A>> In what way ?=0A>> Real answer only.=0A>> =0A>> 1. Sch= ools can get them through their usual suppliers of educational=0A>> mater= ial, with a pretty decent discount, and with educational=0A>> courses and= materials, pretty much ready to go.=0A> =0A> As a bonus data point I hav= e seen RPI's in vending machines at=0A> universities that have engineerin= g departments. Thats just how=0A> "commidity" these items are in the educ= ational world.=0A> =0A>> 2. Most "maker-space" atuned electronics pushers= carry them.=0A>> =0A>> 3. Big electronics pushers carry them.=0A> =0A> Y= ou can walk into a Frys and walk out with one!=0A> =0A>> In re 1-3: No cu= stoms processing of shipment involved.=0A> =0A> :-)=0A> =0A>> 4. Cost, in= cluding shipping is below "trivial" threshold in most=0A>> organizations.= =0A> =0A> Yep.=0A> =0A> I have no problem if some want to ignore RPI*, bu= t as Poul says=0A> FreeBSD does so at its own peril. If its a man power t= hing lets=0A> find it or make it!=0A=0APSA: with the RPi 4, the distincti= on between proper SBSA/SBBR machines and the Pi can get quite small.=0ATh= e new SoC uses a GIC instead of a custom interrupt controller, so it is p= ossible to describe=0Aall the basics of the system using generic ACPI. An= d upstream TianoCore EDK2 is doing just that.=0AFor example, even the XHC= I USB controller can be a good old PNP0D10:=0Ahttps://github.com/tianocor= e/edk2-platforms/commit/0d4b36888b5e614afef0361fda6e899b85999a52=0A=0AThe= organization for this work is https://github.com/pftf=0A=0APeople have a= ctually got Windows (!!!) to run using this:=0Ahttps://twitter.com/WhatAi= ntInside/status/1221151430788161537=0A=0AAnd this doesn't mean we have to= kill the support for all the extra Pi features.=0AFor example, see how N= etBSD has added ACPI attachment for the Broadcom mailbox:=0Ahttps://githu= b.com/NetBSD/src/commit/12e2bb1bfb04328865863ea0d970e323ec0470e5