From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 17 18:13:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11B1A106566B for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 18:13:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Received: from kozubik.com (kozubik.com [216.218.240.130]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F11678FC15 for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 18:13:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kozubik.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kozubik.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q0HICs5n045687; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 10:12:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Received: from localhost (john@localhost) by kozubik.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) with ESMTP id q0HICn62045684; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 10:12:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from john@kozubik.com) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 10:12:49 -0800 (PST) From: John Kozubik To: Mark Felder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 18:13:22 -0000 On Tue, 17 Jan 2012, Mark Felder wrote: > Why is everyone so afraid of running -STABLE? Plenty of stuff gets MFC'd. > Yeah, I agree -- running -RELEASE is difficult. Hell, it's frustrating to us > that VMWare only supports -RELEASE and it took until ESX 5 to officially > support 8.2! > > More releases / snapshots of -STABLE helps people on physical servers, but > anyone who runs VMs on Xen or VMWare won't get any support for those versions > because they didn't go through the QA process yet. FreeBSD is increasingly > becoming a third world citizen thanks to virtualization efforts being focused > on Linux, so I feel that more frequent releases won't help as many people as > you think. Again, I'm not suggesting more snapshots - I am suggesting more real, bona fide releases. This will help people. The fact that vmware only works with release software is consistent with my own assertions. They (we) don't care what fancy toolchain and build environments you have - we need things that we can defend to customers, stockholders, judges, juries, etc.