From owner-svn-src-head@freebsd.org Fri Jun 8 04:44:37 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-head@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C002100FCB2; Fri, 8 Jun 2018 04:44:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bdrewery@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [96.47.72.132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2922D71F36; Fri, 8 Jun 2018 04:44:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bdrewery@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail.xzibition.com (unknown [127.0.1.132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3C3BEB3B; Fri, 8 Jun 2018 04:44:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bdrewery@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mail.xzibition.com (localhost [172.31.3.2]) by mail.xzibition.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 375BD3A6; Fri, 8 Jun 2018 04:44:36 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.xzibition.com Received: from mail.xzibition.com ([172.31.3.2]) by mail.xzibition.com (mail.xzibition.com [172.31.3.2]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with LMTP id 9nu37K7WFqIG; Fri, 8 Jun 2018 04:44:33 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mail.xzibition.com 1F06E3A3 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: svn commit: r334617 - in head: . etc From: Bryan Drewery X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (15E302) In-Reply-To: <201806062035.w56KZhV8006721@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2018 00:44:30 -0400 Cc: Brad Davis , Konstantin Belousov , Eugene Grosbein , Alexander Leidinger , Kyle Evans , src-committers , svn-src-all@freebsd.org, svn-src-head@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <201806062035.w56KZhV8006721@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> To: rgrimes@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for the src tree for head/-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2018 04:44:37 -0000 > On Jun 6, 2018, at 16:35, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >=20 >=20 >> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, at 12:33 PM, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018, at 1:28 PM, Konstantin Belousov wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, Jun 06, 2018 at 01:39:00AM +0700, Eugene Grosbein wrote: >>>>>> 06.06.2018 1:26, Konstantin Belousov wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> I find it often very useful to do >>>>>>>>> (cd src/etc/rc.d && make install) >>>>>>>>> Same for defaults and several other directories which in fact >>>>>>>>> contains> > >>> non-editable content. Is this planned to keep wor= king ? >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> The short answer is, no. All rc.d scripts get moved to the src >>>>>>>> of the program they start.> > >> >>>>>>>> That said, if there is a big need for this, we can see about >>>>>>>> options to keep them working.> > >> >>>>>>>> What are you trying to accomplish when you do this? Just verify >>>>>>>> the rc.d scripts match your src tree?> > > >>>>>>> I avoid mergemaster/etcupdate and whatever else. rc.d and /etc/rc,> >= > /etc/rc.subr /etc/rc.network are not suitable to etc, they are >>>>>>> binaries> > > provided by the project not for the user editing. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> When upgrading the host, esp. on HEAD, i usually refresh scripts >>>>>>> by this> > > procedure and avoid any editing and implied conflict re= solution >>>>>>> for real> > > configs. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Not being able to easily install clean copies of these scripts >>>>>>> would> > > be very inconvenient and time consuming. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I found that "mergemaster -iFUP" deals with unchanged files >>>>>> including mentioned rc* scripts just fine.> > That is, it automatical= ly refreshes unchanged files without any >>>>>> silly questions just for change of $FreeBSD$.> >>>>> No, you missed the point. Whatever nice is the handling of >>>>> unchanged files,> use of mergemaster forces me to handle changed files= , which is exactly> what I do not want/need to do. Yes, I update crashboxes= very >>>>> often, and> I want to get all new code, including the startup scripts,= when >>>>> I update. >>>> The startup scripts will be installed as part of installworld. >>>=20 >>> So each installworld would wipe over the top of any localmod /etc/rc.d/=20= >>> and other stuff >>> that mght exist? >>> One of the reasons that etc/Makefile is detached from Installword is so=20= >>> that >>> /etc does not get perturbuted unless specifically requested. >>=20 >> Yes, this is by design. >=20 > This is going to have a great amount of push back, and this is by your NEW= design, > the existing design does not cause this pain. >=20 This is my position as well. Some people may not like or agree that rc scrip= ts are user modifiable but they are and have been =E2=80=9Cforever=E2=80=9D.= The fact that tools like mergemaster have handled merging of them, =E2=80=9C= forever=E2=80=9D, makes this a huge POLA violation to suddenly be replacing t= hem. I don=E2=80=99t see any benefits at all except to pissoff users. Some of these planned changes for etc feel over zealous and under thought ou= t or discussed. Whatever people think about these topics we must consider POLA and not regre= ssing people=E2=80=99s workflows for no benefit other than draconian ideals a= bout what a user is allowed to modify. >>=20 >> If people need custom tweaks for that stuff they should be upstreamed or m= oved into /usr/local/etc/rc.d as a custom startup script. >=20 > I doubt very much this is a practical solution. I have changes that I dou= bt > belong in FreeBSD, and are not restricted to etc/rc.d. And from reading > this thread thus far so do others. >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd= .org >=20