From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 24 15:53:24 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0721316A51F; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from post5.inre.asu.edu (post5.inre.asu.edu [129.219.110.120]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D040543D45; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:23 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from David.Bear@asu.edu) Received: from conversion.post5.inre.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30769) id <0I4J00C01YLX0W@asu.edu>; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:49:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.asu.edu (smtp.asu.edu [129.219.110.107]) <0I4J00B5UYLXVH@asu.edu>; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:49:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from moroni.pp.asu.edu (moroni.pp.asu.edu [129.219.69.200]) (8.12.10/8.12.10/asu_smtp_relay,nullclient,tcp_wrapped) with ESMTP id i8OFn771016067; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:49:07 -0700 (MST) Received: by moroni.pp.asu.edu (Postfix, from userid 500) id 92EB6EB2; Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:48:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from post1.inre.asu.edu (post1.inre.asu.edu [129.219.110.72]) by moroni.pp.asu.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h1D72Xp06934 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 2003 00:02:34 -0700 Received: from conversion.post1.inre.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1 #40110) id <0HA800601JKAGU@asu.edu> for iddwb@moroni.pp.asu.edu (ORCPT david.bear@asu.edu); Thu, 13 Feb 2003 00:02:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [216.136.204.119]) by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1 #40110) with ESMTP id <0HA8000LDJK9P2@asu.edu> for iddwb@moroni.pp.asu.edu (ORCPT david.bear@asu.edu); Thu, 13 Feb 2003 00:02:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [216.136.204.18]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7205A55EC0; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:02:13 -0800 Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 538) id BE69037B406; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:02:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 838232E8019; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:02:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by hub.freebsd.org (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:02:10 -0800 Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F28DF37B401; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:02:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from puffin.mail.pas.earthlink.net(Postfix) with ESMTP id 49DB643F93; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:02:08 -0800 Received: from pool0060.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net puffin.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18jDNl-0000mV-00; Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:02:06 -0800 From: Terry Lambert Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG To: dwbear75@gmail.com Message-id: <3E4B429D.5DCFB0E9@mindspring.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-to: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Old-To: Michael Sierchio X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4b33fe5c147bdbdc3dd65e01473813236350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Lines: 43 References: <3E4A5B77.5080103@ant.uni-bremen.de> <3E4A863E.2030801@potentialtech.com> <3E4A8EF5.1070308@ant.uni-bremen.de> <3E4A9712.8030609@potentialtech.com> <3E4AA331.5040701@ant.uni-bremen.de> <3E4AA734.5040102@potentialtech.com> <045401c2d2db$f9d45c30$0a0aa8c0@dweebsoft.com> <20030212225631.GA10375@HAL9000.homeunix.com> <005801c2d2eb$aa5fae60$1200a8c0@gsicomp.on.ca> <3E4ADDDE.5040208@pantherdragon.org> <3E4B138F.26E32E75@mindspring.com> <3E4B2433.70301@pantherdragon.org> <3E4B27E6.6010501@tenebras.com> cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG cc: Darren Pilgrim cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why is there no JFS? X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:24 -0000 X-Original-Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:00:45 -0800 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:53:24 -0000 Michael Sierchio wrote: > Darren Pilgrim wrote: > >> Soft updates are disable on / by default because of the chicken > >> and egg problem of runing tunefs on /. > > > > If that's the problem, then why doesn't sysinstall enable it by default > > when partitioning for a new install? > > You can certainly change the options in sysinstall to force Softupdates > on / > > In general, there's little to be gained from it -- on most systems, / is > essentially a read-only filesystem, with very little metadata changed except > for atime. > > BTW, IIRC you can certainly 'tunefs -n enable /' while in single-user mode. If it's mounted read-only, which requires no other mounts, then you can do it. I believe the reason it's not "on" in sysinstall is that sysinstall tries to mount things async on the initial install, so that doing things like unpacking ports doesn't take forever. If it fails, you can just restart, and having to do that a couple of times is still faster than waiting for ordered metadata. The technical reason that it doesn't do it is that the mount update is not logically an "unmount without destroying vnodes(inodes) in core, with a remount with the new options". The main reason for that is that the dependencies go all the way to the buffer cache, and the backing vnode (e.g. the "raw" device) that's mounted does not necessarily get its buffers flushed. Basically, you'd have to put a little more work into the "mount update" code. This was discussed a long time ago on -arch, when soft updates first came into FreeBSD, and then again every 18 months or so, ever after. See Kirk's postings on the subject, if you don't want to take mine for it. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message