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Date:      Tue, 22 Jan 2019 16:34:18 +0100
From:      Borja Marcos <borjam@sarenet.es>
To:        Steven Hartland <killing@multiplay.co.uk>
Cc:        jdelisle <jdelisle@gmail.com>, freebsd-fs <freebsd-fs@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: ZFS on Hardware RAID
Message-ID:  <F2C97F27-CC2F-4D12-B910-F1CDA9858D0F@sarenet.es>
In-Reply-To: <bc417815-9ba3-ef06-38fa-2435532b9969@multiplay.co.uk>
References:  <1180280695.63420.1547910313494.JavaMail.zimbra@gausus.net> <92646202.63422.1547910433715.JavaMail.zimbra@gausus.net> <CAOeNLurgn-ep1e=Lq9kgxXK%2By5xqq4ULnudKZAbye59Ys7q96Q@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.BSF.2.21.1901200834470.12592@mail0.time-domain.co.uk> <1691666278.63816.1547976245836.JavaMail.zimbra@gausus.net> <alpine.BSF.2.21.1901200930550.12592@mail0.time-domain.co.uk> <CAMdBLfQvF7mXriwAvu-h5BaXBNhb_8VPRRfDmeM0u1NGoyWY_g@mail.gmail.com> <92746659-4B3F-415C-BB6A-6C99837AFAF2@sarenet.es> <335e44ec-7c76-8dbd-f587-46e6a9266efc@multiplay.co.uk> <A593D329-3526-4B5A-BCEF-7C17FA5FFA49@sarenet.es> <bc417815-9ba3-ef06-38fa-2435532b9969@multiplay.co.uk>

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> On 22 Jan 2019, at 16:21, Steven Hartland <killing@multiplay.co.uk> =
wrote:
>=20
>=20
>> Sorry to insist, but maybe we are talking of different stuff? My =
apologies in advance if I am confused and/or my
>> information is outdated.
>>=20
>> JBOD mode: a mode offered by some LSI Logic IR controllers to create =
virtual devices mapped so that each one is effectively.
>> For example, with the mfi driver the =E2=80=9Cdisks=E2=80=9D appear =
as =E2=80=9Cmfisyspd=E2=80=9D devices while the =E2=80=9Cconventional=E2=80=
=9D logical volumes appear as =E2=80=9Cmfid=E2=80=9D. My information =
could be outdated though?
> Cards that use mfi are quite a different beasts, they are more a pure =
RAID controller, than cards which have both IT & IR modes, where the =
RAID capabilities are more limited.

Yes, that=E2=80=99s right.=20

Going to actual examples, which I hope will be useful:

- mps cards (LSI2008) can run either IT or IR firmware. Both present =
disks as pure targets.=20

- MFI and others, however, which are pure RAID cards, are the =
pathological case I mentioned (the so called JBOD mode is deceiving).=20
For those you can force the driver to really present da (CAM) targets =
bypassing the RAID logic. I have done it several times and one
of my servers has been doing this since 2007.

- To make it even more confusing, you can choose the driver for LSI SAS3 =
cards. You can use MFI or the new MRSAS driver. The latter
should offer the physical disks as regular CAM targets.

> The later present as daX devices where the former presents as mfid =
unless you force otherwise using mfi/mfip as you detail below.

Yes.

Speaking of IT and IR, Stephen Mcconnell from LSI/Avago said that the =
performance difference should be really negligible. Of course it=E2=80=99s=
 safer
to run IT firmware avoiding the possibility of making a mistake with the =
configuration.=20

>> HBA mode: when the card is in IT mode *or* it does expose the actual =
targets to the CAM layer. In the past I did it
>> by manually patching the drivers and I=E2=80=99ve kept systems =
running smoothly for many years despite using IR cards.
>> Currently you can use hw.mfi.allow_cam_disk_passthrough tunable to =
achieve the same effect without ugly tinkering.
>>=20
>> Unless I am terribly wrong, when I tried the JBOD mode as defined =
above (with LSI SAS3 cards and IR firmware) the mfisyspd
>> devices were not actual CAM devices.
>>=20
>> Actually I find =E2=80=9CJBOD=E2=80=9D an artificial and confusing =
term because it can mean so many things. I would have rather preferred
>> LSI to avoid it and provide either real, transparent access to the =
actual targets insteaf of somewhat =E2=80=9Cvirtualizing=E2=80=9D them.
>>=20
>> Again, I may be confused? I haven=E2=80=99t tried to configure a LSI =
IR card as =E2=80=9CJBOD=E2=80=9D for a long time. Maybe now they do
>> expose the targets instead of defining logical volumes?
> I can definitely confirm LSI controllers which present individual daX =
devices can support TRIM / UMAP based off what the device reports.

Yes, mps and mpr.

MFI includes a not widely publicized tunable (allow_cam_passthrough) and =
for aac (although these are really old) it=E2=80=99s possible to hack =
the
driver (aac_cam.c) so that disks are reported to the CAM layer.


> As you say its quite confusing, so hope that clarifies?

I think so, I was trying to avoid confusion for newcomers, not intending =
to be fastidious. The JBOD term is ambiguous. This stuff drove me mad =
some time ago, not
to mention the puzzled faces of the Dell salesmen when I said =E2=80=9CEGG=
S, BACON, RAID, RAID, RAID, I DON=E2=80=99T LIKE RAID!=E2=80=9D ;)

They thought I was nuts rejecting a =E2=80=9Chardware=E2=80=9D RAID. And =
in some cases they almost refuse to sell servers with plain HBAs.=20





Borja.





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