From owner-freebsd-gnome@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 6 18:54:14 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gnome@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-gnome@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C393316A404; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 18:54:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lofi@freebsd.org) Received: from mail-in-01.arcor-online.net (mail-in-01.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.41]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4707A13C458; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 18:54:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lofi@freebsd.org) Received: from mail-in-13-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-13-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.30]) by mail-in-01.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FA9F173767; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 20:54:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-in-06.arcor-online.net (mail-in-06.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.46]) by mail-in-13-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8D981B8E08; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 20:54:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from lofi.dyndns.org (dslb-084-061-174-014.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.61.174.14]) by mail-in-06.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70DA52C8981; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 20:54:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from lofi.dyndns.org (www@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lofi.dyndns.org (8.13.8/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l36Is8mi097974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 6 Apr 2007 20:54:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lofi@freebsd.org) Received: (from www@localhost) by lofi.dyndns.org (8.13.8/8.13.3/Submit) id l36Is8dZ097973; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 20:54:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lofi@freebsd.org) X-Authentication-Warning: lofi.dyndns.org: www set sender to lofi@freebsd.org using -f Received: from 81.173.179.111 (SquirrelMail authenticated user lofi) by lofi.dyndns.org with HTTP; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 20:54:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <1263.81.173.179.111.1175885648.squirrel@lofi.dyndns.org> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 20:54:08 +0200 (CEST) From: "Michael Nottebrock" To: "Kevin Oberman" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new Cc: Jean-Yves Lefort , gnome@freebsd.org, Michael Nottebrock , kde-freebsd@freebsd.kde.org Subject: Re: [kde-freebsd] system:/media/cd0 and volume_label not latin symbols X-BeenThere: freebsd-gnome@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: michaelnottebrock@gmx.net List-Id: GNOME for FreeBSD -- porting and maintaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 18:54:14 -0000 Kevin Oberman wrote: >> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 13:37:17 +0200 >> From: Jean-Yves Lefort >> Sender: owner-freebsd-gnome@freebsd.org >> >> --Signature=_Fri__6_Apr_2007_13_37_17_+0200_OapU1fZfsGyEc4EJ >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> Content-Disposition: inline >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> >> On Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:58:29 +0200 >> Michael Nottebrock wrote: >> >> > On Wednesday, 4. April 2007, Jean-Yves Lefort wrote: >> > >> > > > So I see several solutions: >> > > > 1. By default submit to HAL user's locale encoded mount point >> name. >> > > >> > > This is not possible. All hal data must be encoded in UTF-8. >> > > >> > > > 2. Modify mount point naming scheme to something which is not >> > > > dependant on locale encoding, for example, to device name. >> > > >> > > I'd rather not make this the default behaviour. The volume label is >> > > much more informative than the device name and should cause no >> > > problems for most users. >> > > >> > > > 3. Change user's locale to UTF8. >> > > >> > > This is the recommended solution. UTF-8 is now universally supported >> > > and I see no reason to stick to a legacy encoding. >> > >> > Universally supported except in FreeBSD. :( I'm not aware of any >> substantial >> > work on UTF-8 since it was imported, which would mean that there's >> still no >> > collation support. >> > >> > If even some Linux distributions despite their vastly superior UTF-8 >> support >> > apparently do it, I think solution 2 should at least be offered via >> OPTIONS >> > right in the port - installing an alternative ruleset wouldn't be too >> > difficult to implement. >> >> What would be difficult (or impossible) would be to provide a >> satisfactory explanation of the option using the small number of >> characters available. >> >> You're right that the FreeBSD libc lacks Unicode collation support, >> but it seems that no gain is made by sticking to a legacy locale: >> >> $ touch A B a b >> $ export LANG=en_US.UTF-8; ls >> A B a b >> $ export LANG=en_US.ISO8859-1; ls >> A B a b >> >> As you can see, the files are incorrectly sorted with both locales. On >> a Linux box, the sort order is correct (a A b B) in both cases. >> >> If someone can convince me that there are good reasons to use a legacy >> locale, I might add the option despite the fact that its description >> would be cryptic. >> > Jean-Yves, > > I guess the term "correct" is unclear as for en_US languages. Yes, mixed-case vs case-separated collation order is in fact undefined and thus up to the whims of the people in charge of collation definitions. As usual, FreeBSD stuck to tradition and Linux went for usefulness (N.B. I'm kidding. But only re. the "as usual"). I still need to roll my own mixed-case collating locale to fix up the gtk2 file dialog ... :P I think the more compelling argument is that switching from a legacy locale to UTF-8 is *hard* if you've used locale-specific characters in filenames anywhere, eg: $ setenv LANG de_DE.ISO8859-15 $ touch k q è é ê ý $ ls $ é è ê k q ý $ setenv LANG de_DE.UTF-8 $ ls $ k q ? ? ? ? Oops. Not to even mention the requirement to change charmaps in terminal emulators, certain server applications (samba), etc etc. There's lots of good reasons to never change the locale of a system once it has been setup and in use. :) Cheers, -- ,_, | Michael Nottebrock | lofi@freebsd.org (/^ ^\) | FreeBSD - The Power to Serve | http://www.freebsd.org \u/ | K Desktop Environment on FreeBSD | http://freebsd.kde.org