From owner-freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 20 19:31:22 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: multimedia@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDDE416A400; Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:31:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from redbull.bpaserver.net (redbullneu.bpaserver.net [213.198.78.217]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9287F13C441; Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:31:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from outgoing.leidinger.net (p54A5DAA7.dip.t-dialin.net [84.165.218.167]) by redbull.bpaserver.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 330432E18F; Sat, 20 Jan 2007 20:39:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from Magellan.Leidinger.net (Magellan.Leidinger.net [192.168.1.1]) by outgoing.leidinger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8218F5B482A; Sat, 20 Jan 2007 20:31:11 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 20:31:10 +0100 From: Alexander Leidinger To: "Konstantin Dimitrov" Message-ID: <20070120203110.3d755388@Magellan.Leidinger.net> In-Reply-To: <8103ad500701200442s189a4cedra2b780c9282bbaa6@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070119180626.GB1837@haakonia.hitnet.RWTH-Aachen.DE> <20070120020238.GB17584@cdnetworks.co.kr> <8103ad500701200442s189a4cedra2b780c9282bbaa6@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 2.7.1 (GTK+ 2.10.8; i686-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BPAnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-BPAnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-BPAnet-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-13.864, required 6, BAYES_00 -15.00, DK_POLICY_SIGNSOME 0.00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, VOWEL_URI_5 1.00) X-BPAnet-MailScanner-From: alexander@leidinger.net X-Spam-Status: No Cc: brueffer@freebsd.org, ariff@freebsd.org, multimedia@freebsd.org Subject: Re: snd_envy24(4) and snd_envy24ht(4) MFC X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:31:23 -0000 Quoting "Konstantin Dimitrov" (Sat, 20 Jan 2007 14:42:51 +0200): > maybe i should comment on the current status of the snd_envy24(4), > snd_envy24ht(4) and snd_spicds(4) too, but to be honest i don't know > from where exactly to start and where exactly to finish, because there > are so many aspects of that question, so the mail will probably be > very long, but hope it will contains valuable information for the > current status and the future of the envy24 drivers under FreeBSD. Very valuable. Thanks! I will add some of this stuff to the wiki. > in short i agree with all previous opinions - from user point of view > the behaviour of snd_envy24(4) and snd_envy24ht(4) (and snd_spicds(4)) > is stable enough, however they are highly experimental drivers and > need serious cleaning up, but at this stage, that should be the last > concern. last, but not least, the lack of more people working on the > envy24 drivers, i'm still the only one who is working on them, is very > serious problem, that tremendously slows down the progress and i will > try to explain below why. Note: despite the fact of the amount of work he describes, I think volunteers should not be scared. Even a small contribution is appreciated. For example take a look at the datasheets Konstantin collected and add some parts which are not implemented yet on already supported chips (e.g. use the new mixer API and connect all mixers there, add initial MIDI support, or whatever). > snd_envy24ht(4) already has support for more than 10 cards, including > all cards made by Terratec and M-Audio, that are based on VT172x. > however, support for cards, that are made by the third major > manufacturer of Envy24-based cards - ESI and their consumer division > Audiotrak is fell behind, because their cards are hard to find outside > Korea and Japan, which is sad, because IMHO they made the best > Envy24-based cards out there. > > maybe if we ask Terratec, M-Audio and ESI/Audiotrak they will provide > hardware to FreeBSD project, but anyway i don't how to do that. any > ideas/experience in such direction? Typically the person interested in this needs to find someone at the company which is willing to listen to him. He has to describe the issues and to ask nicely for support. For example they could give you hardware, or they provide the necessary technical details so you don't need the hardware (and this safe time with the reverse engineering part). Sometimes it helps if you can provide some numbers so that they see that they can make more money if they provide you with the information you need. Unfortunately http://www.bsdstats.org/ only lists one envy device and 13 envy chips without a driver connected currently. So we don't have a large number to convince them. But I didn't had a look at how many other soundcards are present there, so maybe there is a way to show that there are a lot of potential customers. Another idea is to tell them that e.g. Intel is paying developers to develop (network) drivers for FreeBSD as it not only allows to get money from additional users, but also serves as a base to provide working drivers without any bad legal strings (e.g. GPL infection) to OEMs. For Intel this seems to be one major reason they are employing developers which work on BSD drivers. Apart from that: tell me the exact model names you want and I put a call for donation up on our donations page for you. Bye, Alexander. -- A $300.00 picture tube will protect a 10c fuse by blowing first. http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137