From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Dec 10 22:47:23 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37A32E9F876 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 22:47:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sysadmin@grouchysysadmin.com) Received: from outbound00.knthost.com (outbound00.knthost.com [209.195.10.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14D4C666B0 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 22:47:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sysadmin@grouchysysadmin.com) Reply-To: sysadmin@i.grouchysysadmin.com DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 outbound00.knthost.com C03DF4636E DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=grouchysysadmin.com; s=default; t=1512945689; bh=uodvtXA38K4RTUVqPUFbShjJuqOuEzwIF2s2RP6J/Co=; h=Reply-To:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=CUrYqXOreC3vGZMTu+OK+OdRIC/L+sRWOY21zscLlGYMw67nKfiu2IMLDpUtWRizi W0AM3OqpF7fJRl/h8ZASpphmw0i54PphbQU4obuqxpQs1WUam0HMRB1XuOnZjOleT6 nva4h3BShLmksDZD0G/QaBhqi6ERWD/aZ0uZeAmaEFDO2pT8/vlPRZJwvajB+6tzNC nqYxDIDJbbwkbcXRibWJPmRjbI4ABuTOw7f+NgzMndLLZVgq9hoPpxDONxRjbWJuwh 3KUK0jkOerP8WN/yQxFOOqAiI4G7+RrgyuiUEWJmb/i3wY/RoV9MfNCMkBfgt4NMA/ SxL/WrCQ4He5Q== Subject: Re: New packaging approach To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <07f48e07-ce70-7a26-ea19-fd389375afb4@columbus.rr.com> <1c6fbb48-6029-2d93-8fff-675ef800b3c2@columbus.rr.com> From: Grouchy Sysadmin Message-ID: <483d6c09-af4e-5d4a-0681-79498fa3b756@grouchysysadmin.com> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 16:41:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1c6fbb48-6029-2d93-8fff-675ef800b3c2@columbus.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 22:47:23 -0000 On 12/10/2017 02:44 PM, Baho Utot wrote: > > On 12/10/2017 1:54 PM, doug wrote: >> >> On Sun, 10 Dec 2017, Baho Utot wrote: >> >>> On 12/10/2017 12:33 AM, DTD wrote: >>>> >>>> On Sat, 9 Dec 2017, Polytropon wrote: >>>> >>>>> However, I am not sure how the new packaging approach will handle >>>>> this. As you might have read, pkg will be used for installing and >>>>> upgrading OS files in the future, so there will not be the big >>>>> difference "freebsd-update" and "pkg update" / "pkg upgrade". >>>> >>>> Where can I read about this? If this leads to dependency issues >>>> similar to those encountered with desktops, my reaction is more of >>>> 'oh s--t' rather then 'oh boy'. Back to the days when the odd or >>>> even versions numbers were for those of us (read me) who do not >>>> track Stable for similar reasons. >>>> >>> >>> The way the packaging of base is currently being done will*guarantee >>> a great level of OH SHIT. >> >> First, I will qualify my comments by saying I am an end user. I did >> take Kurt McKusick's internals course a decade or so ago. Never ended >> up going anywhere with C but it was/is a good way to understand the >> workings and to be a better sysadmin. My experience with FreeBSD is >> that once release engineering was fully integrated into the upgrade >> process in the 4.x's, maybe the version 5 era (memory goes shortly >> after the tolerance for coding 12 hrs/day) I have never had any >> issues through cvsup, Subversion, and freebsd-update. If you follow >> the releases, they work. Maybe if you are developing a port or are a >> contributor to the base, things are not so rosy. But here in userland >> things are better managed than IBM did with MFT, MVT into MVS. I'm >> pretty sure those guys got paid pretty well and did not have to have >> a day job to do what they really wanted to. >> >> That's a really wordy way to say I disagree with the idea that >> development of the base OS has been mis-handled. In server-land since >> 4.5 no gotcha's here (as a keeper of servers). Things are a bit >> rougher if you want to run a FreeBSD workstation. On my current >> desktop I have gimp, libre office and my window manager of choice. >> 613 packages and items built from ports. The pkg frame-work is much >> improved over the old pkg_add et all. However, the number of >> combinations of {613,n} where n is the number of shared libraries, >> dynamic and static is a large number (finite but unbounded). And all >> involved have to get all the dependencies right to have zero problems. >> >> My concern is, if it works don't fix it. And, if you must, I would >> like to start getting up to speed on it ASAP. I have access to every >> freebsd list but have not found a discussion of this. My only request >> is to be pointed to where I can follow the discussion. > > Have you ever used the "packaged base" If not you don't have a clue to > just how bad it is > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Perhaps https://wiki.freebsd.org/PkgBase would help shed some light on things.