From owner-freebsd-commit Sun Sep 3 05:40:12 1995 Return-Path: commit-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA16668 for freebsd-commit-outgoing; Sun, 3 Sep 1995 05:40:12 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA16611 for cvs-all-outgoing; Sun, 3 Sep 1995 05:38:49 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) id FAA16598 for cvs-usrbin-outgoing; Sun, 3 Sep 1995 05:38:48 -0700 Received: from eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (eikon.regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.42.3]) by freefall.FreeBSD.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA16573 ; Sun, 3 Sep 1995 05:37:35 -0700 Received: from vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de [129.187.142.36]) by eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA23203; Sun, 3 Sep 1995 14:37:15 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA02109; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 22:16:56 +0200 Message-Id: <199509012016.WAA02109@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , CVS-commiters@freefall.FreeBSD.org, cvs-usrbin@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.bin/ee - Imported sources In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:53:18 PDT." <12720.809916798@time.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 01 Sep 1995 22:16:55 +0200 From: "Julian Stacey " Sender: commit-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Jordan, cc list You wrote: > Show me an editor that's implemented as one 110K source file and I'll > be impressed.. :-) What relevance source ? surely binary size is the thing ? > > We are a BSD OS, not a DOS Weenie OS, if the user doesnt understand VI, > > that's his problem not ours, clueless DOSers are of debatable benefit, > > `Least suprise' requires we offer a vi like interface. > > Needless to say, this is complete and utter elitist rubbish and I'm > certainly very glad that you're not in charge of writing our user > interfaces or documentation! :-) FreeBSD is a BSD Unix rewrite/clone, with BSD norms, departures from BSD norms are best debated before commiting. Vi is the standard Unix screen editor, (with Emacs as 2nd I guess). `Least Suprise' requires if vi is too big you first try a standard BSD interface clone editor, such as elvis or stevie, (or maybe micro emacs ?). My offer to port elvis or stevie to replace EE stands. Abandon `least suprise' when it suits you, & expect others to abandon it when it suits them, & watch our BSD ethos erode. ------ Hopefully, FreeBSD should make a strategic decision: Either emphasise the recruiting & supporting of : A) Computer professionals new to BSD Unix, but who are intelligent & can read English docs, & are happy to learn BSD standard tools. B) Unskilled amateur users who don't know vi, prefer not to read original English intro. docs etc. Type (A) ( The `Elitist' Target ;-) - are likely to contribute more to our code base, - are less likely to pose so many basic questions, - may commission commercial packages ports. - may import FreeBSD to their firms, - may purchase commercial support that we hope to offer - may create employee job opportunities, - may contract independent freelancers like me Type (B) ( The `Great Unwashed' Target ;-) - will not purchase any commercial support we evolve - will burden our mail lists with basic questions taught in college or night classes & by tutorial. - will get us noticed more - will not - per head, & per support effort - contribute as much as (A) - suits your missionary zeal & helpful nature :-) - will create higher volume CD sales for your paymaster Walnut, (than type A people in firms with good net distribution) The question for FreeBSD to collectively decide is: Which segment should be actively recruited ? ... and at what support price ? Julian S