From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jun 8 08:34:02 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBCDE347653 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2020 08:34:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd2e.google.com (mail-io1-xd2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49gRP55nK5z3dv6 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2020 08:34:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd2e.google.com with SMTP id p20so17597136iop.11 for ; Mon, 08 Jun 2020 01:34:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=S8h+onXjHmqmauVVsO3wnBhj7Hf+QD2TcvgkvBopPD8=; b=FUu0zDKUtWXgoot/mD6CSbI/DMlilSI6j9PGv9stc0pG0Pl5IJmFHFvRf1N3kK6R9h awNxDTvnWCwPYS47HMcDtCIAWkho9YqASUgIB0Uxq/oI2fU0WS+IvB4WvGDVjJbjMV0M SIZLUsq+F5QrivNOmFYRvzV3d1QvLcdAreijI8iTjntWy8AtameerLWJUNWuYpachAYR L9KKAbDQRYi8+86EmMAkYs319ybtxUue95PECP93DJxtpcbguvHrZ4Z+9fva6/q/kkJZ udaEdBVtwtgxFC4iAvHeBQLFwtVriPX4dQRY4FJZDA+udeEjT6k/TVrr6emYzuu/oC+O bUcA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=S8h+onXjHmqmauVVsO3wnBhj7Hf+QD2TcvgkvBopPD8=; b=PHINKwk7EjMFCgcO73xogF5NrzMl7vT9lrli8CFSWMfGnnSL312A5TR3bMo10lswiE Ue9Yg6lCNQWoZKlTQGHlEkdmoACRXc5/EscLuO6jeuOe66j2SLUMb5zPS1u0jrpqXDZ/ 0uGOq3LoTNMGbWH2m6WRd/011aarmuqn8bT47TDnAj8bGDafuxfBtMVg093yyunXufSF Qp3NEL3k8IOMHxxS9x2IXX8thEV1DezhFAYwA1IXJlPLBGaBc/gmQnh2JMmdKXFhr1el ueZeFraXRNY/6556D9v/nAeGZtZZ7BmeSWNXnL2FoL+//rvfeftPXAdDwBNHW2C9GmEV pe+w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532bf3+aTSce7afYAgw4LnNBjGd/EvNKmSO/Kp3z6NzZ5romke3U fHNrK+GeRLbvi+Z9ma3qAqz1889WBojt4jdgAbSVAB+AN6w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy0DY9ejWJfUVTQ9nTv0CDEJ/TSrDEvOwdUGQ+1AOXEv29krjsI5svmYRtAOj3ABYQh3lJuTE/IXmIpqBpR2eM= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:8e19:: with SMTP id e25mr21199161iod.36.1591605238713; Mon, 08 Jun 2020 01:33:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 04:33:47 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Minimal skills To: Vincent DEFERT <20.100@defert.com> Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49gRP55nK5z3dv6 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=FUu0zDKU; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2e as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.14 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.04)[-1.045]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.010]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2e:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.09)[-1.086]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2020 08:34:02 -0000 On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 3:58 AM Vincent DEFERT <20.100@defert.com> wrote: > On 07/06/2020 19:26, galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu wrote: > > > > This is just general thought not addressed to anyone in particular. > > > > For the moment it indeed is true that openjdk is free. While Sun > Microsystems was behind Java I was quite certain there will be no changes > neither for end user use of Java, not for openjdk. Sun Microsystem did have > that reputation (at least, in my book). Oracle has different reputation > (again, in my book). And charging end users of java applications was not a > surprise for me. I am not saying openjdk will have the same faith, but if > that happens, it will not come as a surprise for me. > > > > Now, it is everybody?s own judgement people should rely on in estimate > of how useful their skills in programming in Java may be in some future to > come. They still may be valuable even if you shift your field out of open > source domain, so do your own thinking. > > > > Just my 2 cents, as always. > > > > Now, concerning the Java developers community, you also may not know how > deep the open source spirit is rooted there. > There are cultural reasons for this, one of them being that Windows was, > and still is, the worse platform to run Java applications on. > So Java developers also have to use some kind of Unix system when > deploying their applications. It is also worth noting a great many Java > tools are released under the > Apache license, which is close to the BSD license. > And you may be surprised if you had a look at the wealth of Java open > source tools available (e.g. google "Maven repository"). > There are some mascists out there like my team mate who does all her programming by editing Java in Notepad and then uploading it to her FreeBSD VM and compiling it since almost all our Java projects (95% of our work) runs on FreeBSD first and foremost. Due to Java's "Compile once run anywhere" promise people might use our stuff all kinds of places for example the same team mate is using a screen recording program I am developing right now on my FreeBSD 12.1 desktop machine (the same one I am writing this message on) on her Windows machine with near zero modification (doesn't have ffmpeg installed so can't do the final video rendering but oh well). BTW we plan to release this under the BSD license in the next few weeks after I get the first version that is usable by mere mortals (aka end-users). -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org