From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 9 22:06:34 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C059C1065673 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2008 22:06:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: from qw-out-2122.google.com (qw-out-2122.google.com [74.125.92.27]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6720F8FC1C for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2008 22:06:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 9so64358qwb.7 for ; Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:06:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=G3VOg3/aJH/6D6V9xDvSq/YuXqLig0tXgvwD19Q67b4=; b=XuDC3NIkvapp856KLHyM6wA7YcN9iqEMTcV8cw+joE/Gx+FCuuBFy7plxDo9RHCK3L uWHaGMC/lO/lgpDMga4biGe5dCm4FnDZwtPp3LqbeBrlkK42H7oZnQY/EIRbPBYZisDD WqGINPh25ktBQkyou7VG5uXMKv40B/dmab3S4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=AgynoLWguQDBL84h9b7CJgZ3VNB4A43PPgLPHI6tEcQKw+bsWQC3/rtOVoHF3pdPMc IuefFIVMJzur9GwW2YhjA7Yd8puGOXz0Y2CiZXsA57ne3rKjtQmBtJ2phzetS8UdAiKI siEDbrjgDI65sQLX6kCnPcnxLntoJBuWmY88s= Received: by 10.151.141.16 with SMTP id t16mr13197872ybn.114.1215641193157; Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:06:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.154.17 with HTTP; Wed, 9 Jul 2008 15:06:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 15:06:33 -0700 From: "Freddie Cash" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <487380FA.6080004@wubethiopia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <784966050807021123l267aa20en39eb513c12c90ad2@mail.gmail.com> <20080702235800.H47773@fledge.watson.org> <486C8700.5020100@lobraun.de> <20080703092511.T69986@fledge.watson.org> <486F8C57.9050908@wubethiopia.com> <20080707213625.69bb0bf4@soralx> <487380FA.6080004@wubethiopia.com> Cc: Subject: Re: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 22:06:34 -0000 On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 8:00 AM, Mike Makonnen wrote: > soralx@cydem.org wrote: >>> Hear, hear! To be honest, this is the only bit about the current >>> sysinstall that I really dislike: the fact that it can be used for >>> post-installation configuration and package installation. This causes >>> no end of trouble for newbies, who seem to view sysinstall as "The One >>> True System Admin Tool" and try to use it for configuring/installing >>> everything. Too many times, on various BSD forums, I've had to walk >>> people through cleaning up /etc/rc.conf and showing them how to >>> correctly install/configure things (using standard FreeBSD tools), >>> since they used sysinstall for everything. >> >> That may be true, but sysinstall did help me do basic, essentical >> configuration of my very first installed system, and a few installs after >> that (until I learned about /etc/rc.conf et al). And I never regarded it >> as The One True Sysadmin Tool, because I did not use Linux distros, thus >> never got used to their ways. It's just that the simple configuration menu >> really helped me to get a useful system running in a few minutes (though menu >> items certainly could make use of more verbose descriptions). And then I could >> play with the working system and learn ways to configure it. >> >> So, IMHO, a basic curses system configuration utility is still needed, and >> should be run after sysinstall or it should tell the user how to run it >> (maybe in motd, or sysinstall itself?). > > Yes, I agree that such a tool is useful, but it does not belong in the > installer. In fact, the BSD Installer framework can be used here also to > separate the implementation details from the user interface. Exactly. There's nothing wrong with having an TUI/GUI for configuring /etc/rc.conf, or ports, or whatever. And there are pointers to the handbook and man pages in the default motd, so one can learn to do it manually via a text editor. All I'm saying is that a generic system configuration tool should not be an integral part of the installer (and all mentions of sysinstall, IMO, should be removed from the default motd). They are separate tasks. -- Freddie Cash fjwcash@gmail.com