From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Apr 11 23:09:32 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D99827E4B0 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 23:09:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x52f.google.com (mail-ed1-x52f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4909Z31J2Nz4FW2 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 23:09:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ed1-x52f.google.com with SMTP id m12so7060650edl.12 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 16:09:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=XeDRqK7aCu1Ce3255S1TgubJFDRyTLV6tdXfd84/JcU=; b=WZ1rXlE5Ryp7b/PF1ggEJMzcpglaWnALFQtKER34C1OJJXVTN2wQcFOgxcU+Kq3zZm lPLMzErBs/mwB6e6izIUh0eojENh9xL1kJX4JqjZICz5xKFRSbDaf4+R32OWSGf7KLbC 06oVgt6g9MkH1+nIUBXMq9MmVhus24JEaQsweDqRJqHpZEEjTRg7Wxc3u7ZzS8jAGO0L /7XKN4vdeX03JbCmcN/b/vYSmT2vFPf1bkejVdSyui4j002KQTAitV1gnGEfJTFfpa2+ lNHhbt5Q+YRUHfj8VjOKqx510kNTqGmaay7b5PqzK+RYW6VAQUiBCMAyfiNVa251rL+F 2CTw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=XeDRqK7aCu1Ce3255S1TgubJFDRyTLV6tdXfd84/JcU=; b=K+/VdZ3y00+VtmItPex2lrGptoEHxZq3nXlhh6m/FM+FkICPTXsyJBVVOYoUYCwkAL NIbpBZO12Thp8E48nt7THDaPXCssB/onp1DnjBrMekpg9EaLfiG7OtNuOrY+EVhuxC6+ vqpL+sz3qqKnmf2+bZRJapCdMY0vW/N0BF98KfbPWmP/ukctfT56KP0qgoktRbdTAtEn JdhX1tFm3HdcqnyzdqswH8m5TUQ+OHKYKI04BJRlbbFb1rOu2LYqacXra28+WSDsI9N2 ZKJZZO/SfkBg4MWdTdfUAWWHOrWNePUpOB015h78AxHWnJC/LImYWtmC3Trf7dmbais2 vhQg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZabgCYYQfFKzkQ6yA1/uB8XDfLpjsEM5d54F/etO52EKb69i2z 1orLGRlh+uRSlFUY3sEQLsl8kNrTUpzzNT14TtikOddY X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLAvQ/GvRxkQQgKW2QoyPn18bbNVdptNaN5yTn1u9XeR//FtBYShewYNGJmRISKbGXEPDLuUHP5vYqu7MzKM2M= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:16ca:: with SMTP id t10mr10127564ejd.122.1586646569488; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 16:09:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1FFE298E-A609-4570-A0BD-E530996C92CF@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Freddie Cash Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 16:09:16 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Ars Technica article on FreeBSD new user experience To: Wojciech Puchar Cc: FreeBSD Hackers X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4909Z31J2Nz4FW2 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=WZ1rXlE5; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of fjwcash@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::52f as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=fjwcash@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.00 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[f.2.5.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-9.55), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.36), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 23:09:32 -0000 On Sat., Apr. 11, 2020, 2:04 p.m. Wojciech Puchar, wrote: > > > > I read this article a few times in detail, but some parts are still > driving me nuts. I agree that FreeBSD isn=E2=80=99t maybe that best Opera= ting > System for the Desktop User, but please, nailing it all down on the > installation experience is strange at least. I think, it would good to ha= ve > an official response from the FreeBSD Foundation, to say at least. > > > > What do you expect from article written by someone without any real > knowledge? > > One more software "in collection". installed, seen, wrote article, > deleted. > Useless email posted by someone without any knowledge of the author. Yay? Yes, Jim doesn't have experience with current versions of FreeBSD (I believe this was his first introduction to bsdinstall). But he has years of experience with older versions, running ZFS-based systems. And with FreeNAS= . He's posted many times in the comments with updates and explanations. No, this wasn't an in-depth review of using FreeBSD for any particular purpose. But it was a decent review of the installation process, pointing out pain-points to those "not in the know". Instead of ripping into the author, maybe look for ways to improve the installation experience. There's some great info around the ZFS bits that those working on bsdinstall should look into (mostly around terminology). Cheers, Freddie Typos due to smartphone keyboard. >