From owner-svn-src-all@freebsd.org Sat Jan 26 17:23:38 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36CA014A74CA; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 17:23:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C2B98C163; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 17:23:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id x0QHNZmu094527; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 09:23:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd@localhost) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id x0QHNZur094526; Sat, 26 Jan 2019 09:23:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <201901261723.x0QHNZur094526@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: svn commit: r343440 - head/bin/sh In-Reply-To: <20190126131803.GA28061@v2> To: Edward Napierala Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 09:23:35 -0800 (PST) CC: Devin Teske , rgrimes@freebsd.org, src-committers , svn-src-all@freebsd.org, svn-src-head@freebsd.org Reply-To: rgrimes@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8C2B98C163 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.990,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 17:23:38 -0000 > On 0125T1647, Devin Teske wrote: > > > On Jan 25, 2019, at 1:13 AM, Edward Napierala wrote: > > > On 0125T1530, Devin Teske wrote: > > >>> On Jan 25, 2019, at 12:28 AM, Edward Napierala wrote: > > >>> On 0125T1441, Devin Teske wrote: > > >>>>> On Jan 25, 2019, at 1:37 PM, Edward Napierala wrote: > > >>>>> pt., 25 sty 2019 o 19:57 Rodney W. Grimes > > >>>>> > napisa?(a): > > >>>>>>> Author: trasz > > >>>>>>> Date: Fri Jan 25 17:09:26 2019 > > >>>>>>> New Revision: 343440 > > >>>>>>> URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/343440 > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Log: > > >>>>>>> Comment out the default sh(1) aliases for root, introduced in r343416. > > >>>>>>> The rest of this stuff is still to be discussed, but I think at this > > >>>>>>> point we have the agreement that the aliases should go. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> MFC after: 2 weeks > > >>>>>>> Sponsored by: DARPA, AFRL > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Please just revert this and the prior commit out, and when > > >>>>>> the path forward is clear commit it. I would not want any of this > > >>>>>> merged to 12/ or 11/ until the time that it is all settled. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Oops, my bad - neither this nor the previous commit is supposed > > >>>>> to be MFC-ed; the "2 weeks" above comes from my default Subversion > > >>>>> config. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Regarding the backoff - just a few hours ago you said you don't have > > >>>>> any problem with this, except for aliases and the default ENV. The > > >>>>> aliases problem has been addressed, and you hadn't yet responded > > >>>>> to my explanations regarding the ENV. Another committer asked for > > >>>>> backoff, because "sh is not an interactive shell", while in fact sh(1) > > >>>>> is FreeBSD's default interactive shell except for root. Finally, there's > > >>>>> one person who asked for revert, but without giving any reasons > > >>>>> whatsoever. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> So far nobody had proposed any scenario where this would break > > >>>>> anything, or even affect existing users. It seems like a typical bikeshed > > >>>>> situation. > > >>>> > > >>>> It is not clear to me after reading r343416 and D18872 what this change is trying to solve. > > >>> > > >>> The idea is to make it easy to replace the default root shell - which > > >>> many people consider broken, due to not supporting basic shell syntax - with > > >>> something that actually works. > > >> > > >> How exactly does changing PS1 or adding 6 aliases fix the "basic shell syntax" which you claim to be unsupported? > > >> > > >> If the number of aliases added to a shell are a measure of its brokenness, then bash must be hella broken (I have 43 aliases in my bash_profile). > > > > > > The aliases are gone. > > > > Fair enough, albeit the topic was r343416 and D18872. > > > > > > > Human-friendly PS1 is considered a standard feature > > > nowadays. > > > > I fail to see how ''$ " is unfriendly. > > How many people you know use a plain '$' as a shell prompt, > because they like it that way? I am prefectly happy with any single character prompt on any OS I might happen to be working on, knowing that I can change it at my leasure. However I am NOT happy with a stringy long ass prompt that eats up half my command line when I am deep down a file hierarchy trying to fix some problem at a single user prompt on a hardwired conssole I had to jack into the box cause it wont come up. Yes I can change either at will, and so can anyone else who wants to, lets stop spoon feeding a new default and spoon feed up some docs on "you may want to tweak this" after you have installed. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org