From owner-cvs-src@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 29 21:49:17 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: cvs-src@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 921C616A4E1 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 21:49:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail4.speakeasy.net (mail4.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.204]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2018143D45 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 21:49:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 27055 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2004 21:49:14 -0000 Received: from dsl027-160-063.atl1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) encrypted SMTP for ; 29 Nov 2004 21:49:13 -0000 Received: from qa4379.itdev.weather.com (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iATLn1CS081672; Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:49:10 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) From: John Baldwin To: Robert Watson Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:48:09 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.6.2 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200411291648.10387.jhb@FreeBSD.org> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on server.baldwin.cx cc: cvs-src@FreeBSD.org cc: src-committers@FreeBSD.org cc: Scott Long cc: cvs-all@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/boot/i386/loader Makefile loader.rc X-BeenThere: cvs-src@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: CVS commit messages for the src tree List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 21:49:17 -0000 On Monday 29 November 2004 05:25 am, Robert Watson wrote: > On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, Scott Long wrote: > > Disable the beastie menu. It offends some and annoys everyone else, > > and I'm frankly tired of the controversy. When people ask me why FreeBSD > > isn't user- friendly, I'll tell them that I tried. RIP. > > I thought that most of the objections I heard were to the Beastie, not the > menu, but perhaps I misunderstood... The only technical objection I've > had to the menu is that the clear screen it issues before rendering causes > some terminal emulators to loose some scroll back, suggesting we might > want to generate a CR, 25 LF's, then pick up with the menu to push the > console contents present previously outside the area cleared. I've seen > one or two bug reports where panic messages have been obscured as a result > of the clear screen but that's easy to work around. > > FWIW, I think the menu is a very good idea, as it provides users wth an > easy option to disable ACPI and try variations on hardware probing on > i386, which sadly, is highly necessary. Especially with the 2-4 year old > generation of machine that is typically available to "experiment with" and > suffers from the worst ACPI quirkiness. I personally don't use the menu on my machines as I have 'set blah' and 'boot blah -x' hardcoded into my brain/hands, but I do think the menu is very useful for users doing installs, esp. the disable ACPI and safe mode options. I even explicitly made sure it was there on the newer splitfs-based boot floppies. I know that I've said I didn't personally use the menu in the past, but I probably didn't mention in the same breath that it does make it easier for non-eccentric users (i.e., people who aren't weird like me) to use and install FreeBSD, and I'm sorry I didn't mention that earlier. As far as the Beastie image is concerned: I wear BSD T-shirts all the time. As far as what I believe and know about Christianity, Beastie artwork, ASCII and otherwise, has basically zero impact on things like eternal fate of my soul, etc. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve" = http://www.FreeBSD.org