From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 16:02:52 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 387D910B0780 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:02:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCCEC7613B for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:02:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id 865Qgr7sLWppD865RgpH8a; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 10:02:50 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=YIcrNiOx c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=smKx5t2vBNcA:10 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=1I5U23AiimhIBCSnZOoA:9 a=IbZP0HunBpSMxrZc:21 a=Y_ZpuCQcp_Tmi-ZU:21 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=ie0lAQJSWFtoc10K1gAA:9 a=DzTo18lYn78rU0Xz:21 a=QTjgFShwftNUy96m:21 a=HIOFVkM2Cjwq-qcP:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from [10.168.101.253] (S0106788a207e2972.gv.shawcable.net [70.66.154.233]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D54EF15C5; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 09:04:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Cy Schubert Subject: RE: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 09:02:50 -0700 To: Warner Losh , "fuz@fuz.su" CC: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Message-Id: <20181004160431.D54EF15C5@spqr.komquats.com> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfKJwa29iGe7QBHvRg+M2EZT1d0jbTPkB7XNRkkx+cZ8w/Rb7opbSfR6oBmKptZFhOXdl6tOoqDrMszbM7TSusO4zchqp/xejScBUQVvwUnf8/2AFLHy1 QboQo8uPSV0jF9heG5SJKYRiPCFXW7Z8Gsijzw55nXG94dJtW64evH27HhZ42qmvIRbastiWP9A2VhZUbNMnOHg3GYL8CCkkPbE= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 16:02:52 -0000 Not that I'm arguing to keep ed(4), I have three ne2000 PCI cards in my des= k here. Sure one could insert one in a current machine, but why? --- Sent using a tiny phone keyboard. Apologies for any typos and autocorrect. Also, this old phone only supports top post. Apologies. Cy Schubert or The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. --- -----Original Message----- From: Warner Losh Sent: 04/10/2018 07:45 To: fuz@fuz.su Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Well, I'd wager its 100 cards that nobody is currently using (ed) has no value. Even 1000 different cards or 10,000. The ed(4) driver likely supported in excess of 1000 different cards because so many people made ne-2000 compatible cards... in the early 1990s. However, since nobody has ISA or PC Card (not CardBus) interfaces anymore (those machines topped out around 32-64MB, which FreeBSD no longer works well on), the benefit to the project is quite low. Even the 'newer' PC Card versions that were 10/100 couldn't get more than about 10-12Mbps due to ISA/PC Card bus speed limitations. The PCI versions were never popular (I had to hunt a bunch for them 10 years ago when I was finishing up my activities on the driver for my vast PC Card collection to find an example to test), and even it had trouble beyond 20Mbps because it wasn't DMA'd. The ED driver was a solid driver last time I tried it, but when I can plug in dozens of 100Mbps or 1Gbps cards into the same CardBus slot and those cost < $10 now, there's very little return on programmer time to keeping this one going. However, having said all that, if we can document 5 real users of this card on machines running FreeBSD 12, it will meet the criteria for remaining, just like any other driver.... So far we've found 0, while we have found many other users of other drivers. Warner On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 8:27 AM Robert Clausecker wrote: > I have a machine with FreeBSD 2.2.8 running with such an interface, but > none with FreeBSD 12, so you do have a point here. However, I am not > sure if it's a good idea to kill this driver; it's good for over 100 > different cards according to the man page, so surely there are some > users left. > > Yours, > Robert Clausecker > > On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 05:45:18PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 3:54 PM Robert Clausecker wrote: > > > > > I request that ed(4) > > > > > > How many FreeBSD 12.0 machines do you have running with this interface? > > > > QEMU does support this interface, but also supports the Intel E1000 > series > > (em/igb), so it's not necessarily needed for QEMU. > > > > Warner > > -- > () ascii ribbon campaign - for an 8-bit clean world > /\ - against html email - against proprietary attachments > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"