From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 6 12:08:50 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F13416A4CE; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:08:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from papagena.rockefeller.edu (papagena.rockefeller.edu [129.85.41.71]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 431F043D1D; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:08:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rsidd@papagena.rockefeller.edu) Received: from papagena.rockefeller.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) i06K5RVj004380; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:05:27 -0500 Received: (from rsidd@localhost) by papagena.rockefeller.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i06K5OYw004378; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:05:24 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:05:24 -0500 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Paul Robinson Message-ID: <20040106200524.GA4224@online.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3FFAF788.9020906@iconoplex.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Operating-System: Linux 2.4.20-20.9smp i686 cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Who's the troll? (was: Where is FreeBSD going?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 20:08:50 -0000 Paul Robinson wrote: > All I'm suggesting (and no, I'm not the troll, but I'd thank him, > whoever he is), I would not thank the troll -- anyone with legitimate concerns can air them under their own names (like you did), otherwise they don't deserve to be taken seriously. That said, I have a bigger concern. Let me point you to this mail from a year ago on the "troll's identity": http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/mid.cgi?29127.1044803212 where Poul-Henning Kamp claims (in rather abusive terms) that the troll was Bill Huey. In reply to doubts raised by me, http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/mid.cgi?20030209181722.GA19704 Mark Murray replied that "he admitted to it": http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/mid.cgi?200302091826.h19IQBaX035066 Now you can argue that PHK is a private individual who speaks only for himself. But Mark Murray is a core member and presumably takes responsibility for what he writes, so I saw no reason to disbelieve him back then, though it did not fit BillH's pattern at all. Recently however in private mail to me, BillH denied it totally and added that he has denied it in private mail to FreeBSD people too, but it refuses to die down. I don't have a position since I know nobody personally. But such unsupported public accusations against someone's character are a very troubling matter. So will Mark and PHK either supply the proof, or retract the claim? Why accuse BillH anyway? In fact, he had recently annoyed the powers that be. He had exploded in violent language on the lists, after what he saw as a slight to him over the FreeBSD Java project, to which he had contributed immensely -- check the archives. His grievance may have been legitimate, but I don't condone the language he used; but the point is that he did it all in his own name, whereas the troll is clearly embarrassed to reveal his identity. Anyway, to an outsider like me, it seems possible that someone decided to get even with BillH by accusing him in this way. I'm not saying that's the case, but you must admit that it's a fair conclusion to jump to, and make amends for it. Or else, any of us could be next, simply on the grounds that someone in the FreeBSD hierarchy doesn't like us. - Rahul (NOTE: I exchanged some private mail with Bill Huey, and checked with him that it's ok to mail the list, but this mail is from me, not from him.)