From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 14:57:15 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAD0C5BBE37 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 14:57:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-f42.google.com (mail-ot1-f42.google.com [209.85.210.42]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDYfM0KMTz4gqy; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 14:57:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ot1-f42.google.com with SMTP id c24-20020a9d6c980000b02902662e210895so11102000otr.9; Mon, 05 Apr 2021 07:57:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=RU98B4EcQrfZFk358NAHXQtqI4e7o12IuW70qfBIZXo=; b=nUxjHup/HpitkN68FEeXSWnxpcN9iJUi+y22g84VoFQZZDofg4pzfctlCTKnOveAZN jXd/r0YGnrOXsNfHeOagMVUrRjNgOlJ1H87nTwKvMy37/45WKmVLNJ4rTooI9RCPx3Cf bOqkvP7GmQMWohDnLmKKBDIAxISt4u1tekFBCFQ2YTB9wpU/a96e3+628CQLbt2A6/fy a4OCNZtqkOZE49qh5jUXrY2p824hn+/sEIqazTx4k2T4E8pW+akKMU+ovESVQMmXFaEr mQ3WfYqzz0S8FgQPhXfNgb4T1PIhdbxpGyX9I3rl4VLvDHpde9g8cEl0RfTtnuo1qta7 rxqw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532kw9sCLhVeOjJNtvROLnNLnlAYUOgd9/jC4ZWog9JGeQ06LqIb Hub5czjK2ksgisHizvCotxN14N5VZpEmbyrpOw0YH2vl X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwo5mhGQJrU3zUZho57HjqslHTcHdQhoBTqctcahRbdJYJ9DwiUeaIsk9Zj4u2tu5OWBf37Yc2DtkgA0c29xWU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:148c:: with SMTP id s12mr23423957otq.251.1617634633927; Mon, 05 Apr 2021 07:57:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202104051444.135EixF6025306@slippy.cwsent.com> In-Reply-To: <202104051444.135EixF6025306@slippy.cwsent.com> From: Alan Somers Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 08:57:02 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? To: Cy Schubert Cc: Ed Maste , freebsd-stable stable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDYfM0KMTz4gqy X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of asomers@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=asomers@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[209.85.210.42:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17:c]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[asomers@freebsd.org,asomers@gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[209.85.210.42:from]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[asomers@freebsd.org,asomers@gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[asomers]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.00)[1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[209.85.210.42:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[209.85.210.42:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 14:57:16 -0000 On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 8:45 AM Cy Schubert wrote: > In message > om> > , Ed Maste writes: > > I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system > > before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 > > (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. > > I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it dropped > > off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it > > had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. > > I think this is an excellent start. My shopping list includes: > > - remove ftp(1) > - remove ftpd(8) > - remove telnet(1) > - remove telnetd(8) > - remove ftp:// and http:// from libfetch. This is 2021 and we should all > use https://. > Whoa there! You can't remove ftp and http from libfetch, because FreeBSD doesn't control all of the servers that our users need to fetch from. Not even close. > - replace DNS lookups with DoH and/or DoT. Why let your ISP see your DNS > traffic? > > > > > I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? > > I've started working on splitting ftp and ftpd into an external git repo. > The problem I've encountered is that though only ftp and ftpd are left the > resultant repo is still 1.2 GB. If my last attempt fails, there is a > choice > between a 1.2 GB repo and burning ftp forever then the choice is clear: > burn it forever. > > Adding the following as an option: > > Also note that the tnftp ports are the NetBSD ftp and ftpd. The FreeBSD > ftp > and ftpd are simply copies of tnftp and tnfpd. Would it make more sense to > share our customizations with NetBSD and we simply reply on NetBSD for the > client and server in our ports? This last option might be simpler than > creating a port. > Maybe, but that would be an impediment to adding Capsicum support. > > Personally, I'd suggest we remove the ftpd server *AND* ftp client and > rely > on ports. Having worked on UNIX, Internet security, and firewalls over the > last 3/5 of my almost 50 year career, I have lamented the existence of the > FTP protocol back in 1995 and I hate the FTP protocol with greater a > passion today. Let's simply remove all vestiges of FTP from the base > system, including libfetch, sooner than later. We don't need it now that > we > have HTTPS and POST; and sftp. > > I think we should make it our goal to remove any and all unencrypted > protocols from FreeBSD by 2025. > tftpd is still vitally important for PXE booting. And unencrypted NFS will certainly live on past 2025. -Alan