Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:15:47 -0800 From: "Freddie Cash" <fcash@bigfoot.com> To: Tim Uckun <tim@diligence.com> Cc: newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: First impressions of freebsd 4.5 Message-ID: <3C6AE593.32696.B13E595@localhost> In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20020213225337.00a4b150@mail.diligence.com> References: <20020213155828.0c3d87d2.chip@wiegand.org>
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> I just installed freebsd 4.5. I am migrating from debian. I just > wanted to share my experience. None of this is meant as a question > just some ranting. > The install went pretty smooth. It glitched on the X setup but I reset > the system and did a /stand/sysinstall and finished it OK. > The KDE seemed to install with the minimum items. No cool transparent > effects, no neat sysadmin tools. Just a gui and nothing else. I was a > bit disapointed but no biggie I don't use X all that much anyway. Welcome to the real world of Unix. :) Everything is installed with the bare minimum to be useful. It's up to you to make it look pretty. :) IMO, that's the way it should be. I mean, look at what happens when you spend all your time on making things look pretty: Windows XP. :) [snip cvsd section -- never heard of it, although cvs comes with the OS - - why do you need another one??] > That's as far as I got. It's been pretty frustrating I'd say > especially compared to debian. I really miss apt-cache search. There > ought to be a way to search the ports collection for what you want. > Apt can search through the descriptions of all available packages and > this is of immense help when you are not sure what you want. If you do > apt-cache search pop3 you will not only get a list of all pop servers > but also web interfaces, clients, enhancements etc. I will really miss > that a lot. man ports. You'll note a section on searching: cd /usr/ports, then "make search key=<keyword>" or "make search name=<prog name>". Doesn't get much better than that. :) Key searches will search the port name, plus all fields of the port description. Name search will search the port names. For those who use packages, there's a very handy search page for ports/packages on the FreeBSD website. > Also I find the file hierarchy very frustrating. Debian seemed logical > to me. Things like databases, ldap files etc all went into the /var > hierarchy which I always thought was reserved for "variable" meaning > data that changes a lot. Freebsd wants to put them in > /usr/local/someplace Where I used to back up /var and /etc I need to > back up all kinds of places I guess. man hier. FreeBSD has, IMO, the best file layout there is. / is used for essential operating system stuff. /usr is used for including programs that make the OS useful. /usr/local is for programs that the local users/admins install to make the OS more useful in their situation. Each of those three tree include an etc tree for config files, a var tree for logs and such, a lib and libexec tree for shared libraries and such, a bin tree for user executables, an sbin tree for system executables, and so on. Sure beats the "standard" Linux way of leaving it up to the programmer where things get put. :) IMO, anyway. > /usr/libexec is not in the path (why not is this some security > thing?). libexec directories are for executables that are called/loaded/run internally by other programs. Users should never be running programs directly from a libexec directory. Again, refer to man hier. > I think /usr/local/etc/rc.d is a bit silly. What is wrong with > /etc/init.d at least it's less typing. I also don't like the fact that > some config files are in /etc some are in /usr/local/etc. I used to > import the /etc directory into cvs now I need to do it for two > directories. System startup scripts are handled by the rc system. These files are part of the OS and are thus stored in /etc. Startup scripts for user installed programs should be kept in the /usr/local/ tree, hence why they are in the etc/rc.d/ directory off the /usr/local/ tree. Again, please refer to man hier. > Also there seems to be some inconsistency with the way ports install. > PHP wants to put the ini file in /etc (or was it /usr/local/etc) and > Apache wants to put it in /usr/local/apache. In debian it was so nice > every package had it's own directory in /etc you always knew where to > look for config files instead of constantly searching for them. There is no /usr/local/apache/ directory. Apache follows hier(7). Conf files for Apache are stored in /usr/local/etc/apache/ The PHP port also follow hier(7) and installs the php.ini file into /usr/local/etc/ Again, please refer to man hier(7). In case you were wondering, the default login message mentions this man page. > You know it's awfully convenient to type grep -r "something" /etc/* > I find it annoying that the ports try to compile everything. I have > two machines and one of them is pretty old it takes forever to install > anything. If I try to pkg_add I need to know exactly where the package > is. I tried doing pkg_add ftp://yada.yada/somepath/cvsup.x.x.tgz and > it did not ask me questions or say anything I wonder if it went OK. In > debian if you know the name of the package you can install it. If you > want to install postfix just type apt-get install postfix. That will > not only install postfix but will also uninstall sendmail. It knows > which packages are equivalents of each other. That is pretty cool I > wonder if ports know that too. man pkg_add. Note the "-r" switch. Pay particular attention to this switch, it comes in handy. All you need for most packages is the following: pkg_add -r <package name> For instance: "pkg_add -r cvsup- without-gui" is a very quick and easy way to install the very useful cvsup program. > Where is the equivalent of apt-get update && apt-get upgrade? How do I > keep my system up to date and hack free. cd /usr/ports; make search name=portupgrade OR: pkg_add -r portupgrade This has been considered for inclusion in the FAQ, which I assume you've already read. :) > getting ls colors on putty was a bitch. The easiest way is to install the gnuls port, then alias your ls command to "gnuls --color=auto". Works great in both the bash and tcsh shells. That's one of the first things I install on my FreeBSD machiens. > I am sure there is a method to this madness. I am sure I will have to > get used to the freebsd way of doing things. I just wanted to get that > off my chest. Take it as a rant or constructive criticism The first thing you will need to change, coming from Linux, is the aversion to man pages. In the BSD world, man pages are your friend. The three free BSD groups have written some of the best documentation I have ever read. Plus, it's so much handier than firing up a browser and trying to navigate the linuxdoc website. :) > On a positive note the default install was very secure (except I > immediately killed sendmail of course). Welcome to the wonderful world of FreeBSD. I hope you enjoy reading, because there's so much info to take in. :) But, it is definitely all worth it. I started out with FreeBSD full-time just two years ago, and haven't used a Windows or Linux box at work since. One of these days, I might get around to moving my poor little laptop over, but I've finally got it working the way I want it, and don't see much incentive to change it. At work, though, having that rock-solid desktop is just so much fun to work with. :) Cheers, Freddie PhoenixTek Consulting fcash@bigfoot.com Unix / Networking Services (250) 314-4029 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
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