From nobody Sat Nov 4 01:28:52 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4SMg4Y6fYpz504XT for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2023 01:29:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steffen@sdaoden.eu) Received: from sdaoden.eu (sdaoden.eu [217.144.132.164]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4SMg4Y0Rdvz4c1c; Sat, 4 Nov 2023 01:29:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steffen@sdaoden.eu) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of steffen@sdaoden.eu designates 217.144.132.164 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=steffen@sdaoden.eu; dmarc=none Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2023 02:28:52 +0100 Author: Steffen Nurpmeso From: Steffen Nurpmeso To: Thomas Dickey Cc: Jamie Landeg-Jones , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, bapt@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Freebsd 14+ -- tcsh incompatible with terminfo Message-ID: <20231104012852.ibgGG%steffen@sdaoden.eu> In-Reply-To: References: <202310312245.39VMjNJB080965@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> <202310312259.39VMxm6W081150@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> <202311010349.3A13nX1M094463@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> <20231101220247.HGrrB%steffen@sdaoden.eu> <202311020241.3A22f4o3042181@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> <20231102175855.A1pj0%steffen@sdaoden.eu> Mail-Followup-To: Thomas Dickey , Jamie Landeg-Jones , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, bapt@freebsd.org User-Agent: s-nail v14.9.24-553-gc24c1fad78 OpenPGP: id=EE19E1C1F2F7054F8D3954D8308964B51883A0DD; url=https://ftp.sdaoden.eu/steffen.asc; preference=signencrypt BlahBlahBlah: Any stupid boy can crush a beetle. But all the professors in the world can make no bugs. List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.31 / 15.00]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.971]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.04)[-0.040]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; BLOCKLISTDE_FAIL(0.00)[217.144.132.164:server fail]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sdaoden.eu]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15987, ipnet:217.144.128.0/20, country:DE] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4SMg4Y0Rdvz4c1c X-Spamd-Bar: - Hello Thomas Dickey. Thomas Dickey wrote in : |On Thu, Nov 02, 2023 at 06:58:55PM +0100, Steffen Nurpmeso wrote: |> I do understand that a bit. Other than that plain termcap was so |> small and i would assume essentially unchanged for decades, that |> i do not. Termcap entries, yes. I could imagine vt220, xterm, |> screen-256color, and take one of st-256color, whatever KDE and |> GNOME terminal, and rxvt-unicode. Makes seven. Likely |> automatically extractable via "infocmp -C" of Dickey's terminfo. |>=20 |> Let's just try that: |>=20 |> $ rm .TCAP;\ |> for f in vt220 xterm screen-256color st-256color \ |> rxvt-256color gnome-256color konsole-256color; do \ |> infocmp -C $f >> .TCAP;\ |> done;\ |> ls -l .TCAP |> -rw-r----- 1 steffen steffen 7145 Nov 2 18:40 .TCAP | |There's more data in termcap than that (which some people would like \ |to use). You know the entire thread is moot as i think bapt@ has thrown away the BSD termcap years ago, if i recall correctly (i think i spoke up by then). I only answered because of the "great it is gone" thing. |And there's additional data for terminfo -- again, some want it. | |man infocmp: | | For best results when converting to termcap format, you should \ | use both | -C and -r. Normally a termcap description is limited to \ | 1023 bytes. And i do not know whether BSD termcap can work with larger ones. | infocmp trims away less essential parts to make it fit. If \ | you are | converting to one of the (rare) termcap implementations which \ | accept an | unlimited size of termcap, you may want to add the -T option. \ Yes. I heard about the limit. | More of=E2=80=90 | ten however, you must help the termcap implementation, and \ | trim excess | whitespace (use the -0 option for that). | |(-T is appropriate here - ymmv) | |With -C alone, I get |-rw------- 1 tom users 7315 Nov 2 21:02 .TCAP | |With -CrT, |-rw------- 1 tom users 14390 Nov 2 21:02 .TCAP | |For terminfo, no options |-rw------- 1 tom users 16027 Nov 2 21:03 .TCAP | |For terminfo with -x |-rw------- 1 tom users 19533 Nov 2 21:03 .TCAP One would have to add that OpenGL-accelerated terminal (allacritty or so) at least, too. I am not speaking against your ncurses and the work and effort you put there, you know, i spent about 30% of my live in front of a st/tmux combination, and i would think tmux uses more and more of the optimizations, and improvements of yours. For example i saw fly by an OpenBSD commit where tmux started using tparm_s or what its name was. They imported some ncurses snapshot only for it (in the end), if i got that right. The function is not on my box -- and i do not "track" ncurses no more because i will likely never reach a point where i need it as such. I was speaking pro BSD termcap. I do not know whether even the omnipresent readline library would need anything more than the absolute basics. I know my mailer can, .. it can even without termcap, .. at least a little bit, and very expensive. (I have not tried that out for years so.) --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt)