From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 4 09:25:56 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3A5E37B40A for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tcoip.com.br (erato.tco.net.br [200.220.254.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E0D743F3F for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:25:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@tcoip.com.br) Received: from tcoip.com.br ([10.0.2.6]) by mail.tcoip.com.br (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h54GPal04274; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:25:37 -0300 Message-ID: <3EDE1D7F.1090501@tcoip.com.br> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 13:25:35 -0300 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4a) Gecko/20030416 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, pt-br, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brooks Davis References: <20030603113927.I71313@cvs.imp.ch> <16092.35144.948752.554975@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> <20030603115432.EGLB13328.out002.verizon.net@kokeb.ambesa.net> <20030603122226.BGPM11703.pop018.verizon.net@kokeb.ambesa.net> <3EDD81A4.B6F83135@mindspring.com> <3EDDF732.1060606@tcoip.com.br> <20030604152156.GB25240@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> In-Reply-To: <20030604152156.GB25240@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Making a dynamically-linked root X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 16:25:56 -0000 Brooks Davis wrote: > On Wed, Jun 04, 2003 at 10:42:10AM -0300, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > >>Terry Lambert wrote: >> >>>Mike Makonnen wrote: >>> >>> >>>>2. What happens if I hose one of the libraries? >>> >>>I always love this one. The same thing that happens if you hose >>>your shell, any of your kernel modules get corruptes, you hose >>>your kernel, you hose any of the files that the boot loader looks >>>in before actually loading the kernel, you hose init, or you hose >>>mount, or any one of dozens of other files. >>> >>>It's not like linking shared gives you any kind of statistically >>>significant increase in the number of single points of failure or >>>the overall MTBF for the overall system. >> >>It doesn't? If /bin/sh is hosed, I use /bin/csh. If /bin/ls is hosed, I >>use 'echo *'. If /boot/kernel/kernel gets hosed, I use >>/boot/kernel.old/kernel. If a module gets hosed, I don't load it or use >>the one in kernel.old. And so forth. >> >>If libc gets hosed, *ALL* programs stop working. >> >>So, I did not have any single point of failure for single file >>corruption before. Now I do. But you claim there was not significant >>increase, statistically speaking. Could you please point out what am I >>missing? > > /rescue/sh Sorry, Terry didn't answer /rescue/sh. He disclaimed the need for one because, see, the risk we are incurring by having root dynamically linked isn't greater. Yes, /rescue/sh answer this question. But I'm not questioning the proposal, I'm questioning Terry's answer to a valid question (which *should* have been /rescue/sh). -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) Gerencia de Operacoes Divisao de Comunicacao de Dados Coordenacao de Seguranca VIVO Centro Oeste Norte Fones: 55-61-313-7654/Cel: 55-61-9618-0904 E-mail: Daniel.Capo@tco.net.br Daniel.Sobral@tcoip.com.br dcs@tcoip.com.br Outros: dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org capo@notorious.bsdconspiracy.net Your reasoning powers are good, and you are a fairly good planner.