From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Apr 6 07:54:15 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 701251579035 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2019 07:54:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic313-10.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic313-10.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.185.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEBF06D305 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 2019 07:54:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: krgR4qkVM1lp_il.ec8qPQ_FqWpoc9GCtFRDRv.tGcazLsOHleHFCe9kZhtuhMD PIgmzklwHihOlY7Ypad.R8_9H2oRCfy6H8DXhdA_tC5FoGFq0nyQFZnAx4EaArLiQDxSvBBiC6TK hkr8F6sO_iHyHlvt0IgkZ9DPY3cD3Ghnb.WIFxIAJNM9IpjAZWq8LwXhknnrOho1X6_QK61Rj5G7 dxmxcS4dfp1jxTE2OaarF8khua6b8qHy7qCLD1jJujOaUzMH_E5D4R.bB_YdXQP4ToklgO.7FclY oCEDjBT5DYFJIQMP7SBVRgfGll.7jmOHoY_zaUnTDSMO5AWs_C6QyPWsFm5VPiK0e0F2Pa4r9Lmb uyN3lifTuHgwSPUKSAlzCIRRz2sr5fe8ZefU3RdFS4G6KX0OwMEhg8oxKEt3kuM.ypNQIG7wIV1L FfI3mD93WBKaqGPstIBdTSu_xBdvlY2SNxdmfSVPPdd0Zn5A7JgO_CizfIIzL8CChWwbEs_lcNJA 9yLZY5sivju16ORgRtKY4RxiOTAjzkyRswU9MVZ1xKkuLz6sD9WTjTxVfknMIzSAsR9o8nWlt7gZ b9U60miS2dYAEf32lKfEEb5KQ45nJG2Td0yWxjTqWEgZnTeCPjXMPQsc9ZR8h2eJuDN__PZRki7Z RAjwdOd4yse299CwuLnIEoXiFHRvs5PiH7_7y7rlRa9Wy7cYPGTdLTnZG6lNnoNrvv5yP9.ckQLv G9tjg4CgBkviLYZ3YEvQLNoalrDy2KaVIe3RQlaSL9TRS4d7EeT8KmhZQPH7W0wSkF1ivADFlW5K fylhXVOQHV4v5oygYAjhR8FW1F2WxWUqHZJ.IwglVBIBb4.eTsZ9Gr1lRy6hOieMV2PQlRzDhdAe pXtLcwN9eop0iU6PeNLMjShHkbHMwKVWTuBZpVWEdu8O46hxpNe3XV6aHn1ljUNTenG4EoBwUA7c g_sFjAKXuqZlYc7GDLjJcfRMQIdUGhflRdky5bShGdw1zRYRadnOCHwUlcH8cTRFhFjf9zK9STw3 vBuppWsPdKZgtj3RlcRUaSmJiFDtVEtkMNw8xTSgYK5lILMBHtOs0B.lxGuGLoyitl._W7V7z Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic313.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 6 Apr 2019 07:54:05 +0000 Received: from c-67-170-167-181.hsd1.or.comcast.net (EHLO [192.168.1.113]) ([67.170.167.181]) by smtp417.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 71c50158df587c5d8e6f5cfcbcf89622; Sat, 06 Apr 2019 07:54:02 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.8\)) Subject: Re: powerpc64 head -r344018 stuck sleeping problems: th->th_scale * tc_delta(th) overflows unsigned 64 bits sometimes [patched failed] From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: <55604EF6-CB81-4300-8E9E-E3A94504D0B5@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2019 00:54:00 -0700 Cc: freebsd-hackers Hackers , FreeBSD PowerPC ML Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3592A7F1-9EAE-4A33-B51A-678BE104E18C@yahoo.com> References: <20190307222220.GK2492@kib.kiev.ua> <20190309144844.K1166@besplex.bde.org> <20190324110138.GR1923@kib.kiev.ua> <20190403070045.GW1923@kib.kiev.ua> <20190404011802.E2390@besplex.bde.org> <20190405150236.A959@besplex.bde.org> <20190405201055.I2396@besplex.bde.org> <20190405113504.GA1923@kib.kiev.ua> <55604EF6-CB81-4300-8E9E-E3A94504D0B5@yahoo.com> To: Konstantin Belousov , Bruce Evans X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: BEBF06D305 X-Spamd-Bar: +++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.42 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.95)[0.951,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(1.50)[ip: (4.94), ipnet: 66.163.184.0/21(1.46), asn: 36646(1.17), country: US(-0.06)]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.96)[0.960,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.52)[0.516,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[33.185.163.66.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[33.185.163.66.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2019 07:54:15 -0000 On 2019-Apr-5, at 14:31, Mark Millard wrote: [I found a document covering PLLs for the 970MP's in the old PowerMac G5 involved.] > On 2019-Apr-5, at 04:35, Konstantin Belousov = wrote: >>=20 >> On Fri, Apr 05, 2019 at 09:13:50PM +1100, Bruce Evans wrote: >>> On Fri, 5 Apr 2019, Mark Millard wrote: >>>=20 >>>> On 2019-Apr-4, at 21:38, Bruce Evans = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> On Thu, 4 Apr 2019, Mark Millard wrote: >>>>>> ... >>>>>> Unfortunately, all the multi-socket contexts that I sometimes = have >>>>>> access to are old PowerMacs. And, currently, the only such = context >>>>>> is the G5 with 2 sockets, 2 cores per socket (powerpc64). So I've >>>>>> not been able to set up other types of examples to see if = problems >>>>>> repeat. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I do not have access to a single-socket powerpc64 for contrast in >>>>>> that direction. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Testing 1 socket is time-consuming enough. Do these old systems >>>>> use the equivalent of an x86 TSC for the timecounter? With = multiple >>>>> sockets, it isn't clear how even a hardware timer independent of = the >>>>> CPUs can be distributed so as to appear to be monotonic on all = cors. >>>>=20 >>>> "The DEC frequency is based on the same implementation-dependent >>>> frequency that drives the time base." The frequency may well be >>>> fixed by the PowerMac G5 model implementation but is not fixed >>>> by the powerpc64 architecture. >>>>=20 >>>> The Time Base Register (TBR) in a powerpc64 core (cpu in FreeBSD = terms) >>>> increments at 33,333,333 Hz (nominal) and is 64 bits wide. Its = value >>>> can be set (mttb instruction) and the boot sequence in FreeBSD does >>>> attempt to adjust as the FreeBSD CPU is brought-up/started. mftb is >>>> used to read the 64-bit value. FreeBSD masks it down to 32-bits to >>>> contribute to the time-counter. >>>>=20 >>>> (Is that description sufficient for what you were after? I've never >>>> seen documentation of how the 33,333,333 MHz is produced.) >>>=20 >>> This seems to be equivalent to an x86 TSC. >> It is equivalent from the interface PoV. I saw some references that >> Powers do have per-core PLLs, the best I can find now is >> = https://stackoverflow.com/questions/43844438/are-multiple-clock-domains-co= mmon-in-modern-processors >=20 > I finally found a document covering the 970MP in the old > PowerMac G5 in question: >=20 > http://datasheets.chipdb.org/IBM/PowerPC/970/PowerPC-970MP.pdf >=20 > It has material about the PLL's, pinout, etc. : >=20 > "This section will help in configuring the PLL and determining SYSCLK = input > frequency for PowerPC 970MP systems." Also: 100 MHz to 700 MHz SYSCLK. > "SYSCLK minimum frequency is for PLL mode. In PLL bypass mode (BYPASS = low), > SYSCLK frequency may be as low as 10MHz." BUS_CFG[0:2], PLL_MULT, and > PLL_RANGE[1:0] are involved for PLL mode. >=20 > Ratio from BUS_CFG: 3:1, 6:1, 12:1 normally use PLL_MULT=3D0 for a PLL = multiplier of 12. > Ratio from BUS_CFG: 2:1, 4:1, 8:1 normally use PLL_MULT=3D1 for a PLL = multiplier of 8. >=20 > (It describes the PLL power supply filtering circuit as well.) >=20 > So far I've not seen anything that is directly for the rate that the = TBR > and DEC registers change. >=20 >> For Intel there is no much information, the best guess is that TSC is = in >> uncore and effectively shared by all cores. See also >> = https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/best-timing-function-for-measuri= ng-ipp-api-timing/ >>=20 >>>=20 >>> x86 P-state-invariant TSCs apparently use a 100 MHz clock which = corresponds >>> even more closely to this, except for historical reasons this clock = is >>> scaled and interpolated to a clock resembling the CPU cycle count at = a >>> nominal frequency. >> For Intel designs, there is indeed a single-source 100MHz signal = which >> is distributed over all consumers using clock fan-out buffers like = DB1900Z. >>=20 >>>=20 >>>> As FreeBSD supports multi-socket, what are its criteria for a = sufficient >>>> context for it to work with for supporting sbinuptime and the like? = Is >>>> FreeBSD supposed to then make it appear that sbinputime and the = like are >>>> weakly increasing, even as threads migrate between CPUs (cores, >>>> hw-threads)? >>>=20 >>> CLOCK_MONOTONIC has to be monotonic, but it is only clear what this = means >>> within a single thread: sequential clock_gettime() calls must occur = in >>> program order and the results must be consistent with that order. = Across >>> threads, I think it should mean that the results must be consistent = with >>> any order established using any supported ordering methods. >>>=20 >>>> ... >>>>>> One oddity is that the eventtimer's decrementer and timecounter >>>>>> may change (nearly) together: both change at 33,333,333 Hz, as if >>>>>> they are tied to the same clock (at least on one socket). >>>>>=20 >>>>> I think this is from a normal hardware implementation. On all of >>>>> my x86 systems with a TSC, the TSC frequency is an exact = fractional >>>>> multiple of the i8254, the ACPI timer (if present) and the HPET = (if >>>>> present). Only the RTC has an independent frequency. The = fraction is >>>>> changed by changing the nominal TSC frequency in the BIOS, but is = not >>>>> changed by temperature variations. This must be because most = clocks are >>>>> derived from a common clock using a PLL. I use this to calibrate = all >>>>> clocks (except the RTC) by calibrating only 1. >>>>=20 >>>> I'm not aware of the OpenFirmware having any control over the >>>> TBR-change frequency behavior. I've no evidence about any = variability >>>> based on temperature. >>>=20 >>> Temperature changes usually affect the actual frequency but not the >>> nominal frequency. >>>=20 >=20 I found more about the 970MP's TB/DEC rate: "The TBEN input pin can be used as an enable for the internal timebase/decrementer or as an external clock input." Details: HID0 bit 19 =3D 0: update at 1/16th processor core frequency, but only when TBEN is high. HID0 bit 19 =3D 1: update at rising edge of TBEN (must not exceed 1/16th of the core processor's maximum frequency). So the 33,333,333 Hz TB&DEC update rate vs. 2500 MHz would mean that rising edges of TBEN are in use (HID0 bit 19 =3D 1) in the PowerMac G5 context in question. I've no information about how closely matched the TBEN signals are at the 2 sockets, beyond the nominal frequency. =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com ( dsl-only.net went away in early 2018-Mar)