From owner-freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Fri Dec 27 11:53:43 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ppc@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F0681EB51F for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 11:53:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic301-21.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic301-21.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.64.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47klbB2BXlz42XD for ; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 11:53:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: wna9NoQVM1ljZH4_g2L3voZD9TdmX7NJhjKCalBdqgEkzY6rmZoM0A_x4PZ6ZoI E4vCivaK_EcA2Tqj_pC_XSqIzw2eDmy3sZu2Lpath.0w7iXEtZy.utViJSJdsVmmZsj0hgC3gqDu 2UB56JZSATfkrAsVlbaXO7Lnx.HUJIXouL.ZR7JzpCr.rqUDSefjv2ILeDfrEd7mA7gJnmczYngl 2NoSa4.LPXr3vS1DXeJoGYz61Jh7_CoNZLnnQZTk14sam7T9NU7c3GKNvC8nV48q0EeYFlL7jP16 xoxIp4b_JPP51e03facPxLVPziS_.5YpHLOHneQ.nxGPbxicula.ynp4eZ7aNwN0G_BgxSuQTjhU QFKA3YAS_HoHShnYokIHf_Tkr6xDnjtc8tK0XdHHrbcLe47O4bS2jY6G9LTymxbdkchiJx6DnNeG fssaF6NeHZrt4d28XPcFhU2fAk9jyAPatQGluB22SxcH38SRjmXrRMl.Fe8uWEDpwCfTUBmWjbvv ERcZjlP_SplXsDDSSbWq9yKeQozDc8DnoYD0LBcJweTIqmZWZ1aiGS8qhXuBDj.v7eDj8JjI79kE iZqeddMWqBNxYeE8d1oJ7R.SRisXqCC_sRQicRn_3lTOdBHpzyLMhsEU2dgUGBJ8AnBYTYrM1Nch R19yKQKmlRxkPKiK5Va8jGueaDQo.03cEa79Fyeh5kMxMrjWprJg7vv.TRPXZntQxhkBdslkuo.A xrI_.OmM4j3ftogmcf5BB3O2WCBKTS82zW13xvv8ZMrlzOOWHiUzLhBFz12c0E7zFLlimMc4l.5E a1Y_NkeIeACMcgI6GXwOsflV8scrianPQ76FIyOFnHlnx2Sy93ZX8mSyFGMhyNaFBlkipWU29yt9 AqwifNyAiqW8OnKa3Pp_8CTQqWe9XIECPVoeQOoPrNGg8F8mv2YFnBDDixEKcg02d3hzrBWNVSbi 6xXygCd9zUTgcgpSPYIfy5XiVmR8j2eiTNMFTQk2X8UiQi.qoMUwicKEDbUDuC9MB9RNGDNxI62F sn57G4_8xfH_LOYeR83DRIdgMWD6Se6bd.NugY3Qv6OU10BAd48KyC5a59neifQqiRYVQuyQTEqj WSJ55hHLBAdphQvU1vvzMTtVCVGUnAHtwwp.e6ZdRuIeDl_icLeof._felRVxTTDQSyCefot5yVR d06ecMwq_q2e5ALeQJ.Wa14_Eey2Q3wl2n8sa_0ST7487z6TP3x4.WAFKH3I6luPOUhhITchvdib 7zdhu7FoairGFxxIhjI2oAWxYBze1CGCCo2qUUIohU5g.QD2LOx_x38qKIdpiFy_jaFWB_42Ae.w p88CKCk_RPajCsluQYxQH.WS8udZmV5QVQOkAZi878GcxlXkkpLKrpbcmx5hfcCu_5IME79NrKik yDJekb3PsbOruxRHIn9ltQJMzPgzy6AW__AUfD2tIGQ-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic301.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 11:53:40 +0000 Received: by smtp425.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID cae4a25bb5dfcc802275082f43ce311f; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 11:53:38 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark Millard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3608.40.2.2.4\)) Subject: Re: svn commit: r356116 - head (powerpc families jumping to clang-based; powerpc64 also to ELFv2) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 03:53:37 -0800 To: svn-src-head@freebsd.org, freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.40.2.2.4) References: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47klbB2BXlz42XD X-Spamd-Bar: ++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.32 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(0.00)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(0.00)[yahoo.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/21, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(0.00)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (5.68), ipnet: 98.137.64.0/21(0.89), asn: 36647(0.71), country: US(-0.05)]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.93)[0.934,0]; BAD_REP_POLICIES(0.10)[]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; URIBL_PBL(0.01)[klop.ws]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.88)[0.877,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[147.64.137.98.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the PowerPC List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 11:53:43 -0000 Ronald Klop ronald-lists at klop.ws wrote on Fri Dec 27 09:39:22 UTC 2019 : QUOTE Do powerpc people need to do something special while updating? Like a clean buildkernel/buildworld. Or is this just a note for historical bookkeeping? END QUOTE See https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ppc/2019-December/011042.html But it was -r356118 before powerpc64 and 32-bit powerpc started to complete builds on ci.freebsd.org . powerpcspe still fails to build there. I agree that UPDATING could use more material guiding actions, especially for powerpc64 where the ELFv1->ELFv2 change is an ABI incompatibility. Quoting from that message: QUOTE Therefore, it is recommended to perform a complete reinstall of the system on powerpc64 platforms. END QUOTE There may well have been an implicit "from scratch" intended in that quote. No use of old port builds either for powerpc64. Those using binary updates of ports via pkg for powerpc64 may have mismatch issues around the transition. I've no clue for binary system updates (if there are such for powerpc64). (I've only built from source for world, kernel, and ports for my normal activity.) Another issue for those that build from source is the RAM use and time taken for buildworld buildkernel , at least on older or low end hardware, such as old PowerMacs. The armv7 and small board aarch64 folks experience with this may prove useful. Avoiding Out Of Memory process kills from free RAM staying low for long periods or from slow paging or other issues can be a challenge. Unfortunately, the messages complain about being "out of swap" even when that is not the issue. It is not always clear just what criteria leads to a OOM process kill, making it hard to figure out how to avoid those happening. Real "out of swap" conditions also normally report console messages of the form: . . . swap_pager_getswapspace . . .: failed Otherwise it is unlikely it is actually out of swap space. For delaying how long free RAM staying low is tolerated, one can increase vm.pageout_oom_seq from 12 to larger. The management of slow paging I've less experience with. With low enough RAM it may not be possible to have enough swap/page space to allow llvm materials to all build, even for -j1 builds. Examples follow that I use in contexts with sufficient RAM that I do not have to worry about out of swap/page space for how I buildworld buildkernel . These I've set in /etc/sysctl.conf . # # Delay when persisstent low free RAM leads to # Out Of Memory killing of processes: vm.pageout_oom_seq=120 # # For plunty of swap/paging space (will not # run out), avoid pageout delays leading to # Out Of Memory killing of processes: vm.pfault_oom_attempts=-1 Note: In my context "plunty" really means sufficient RAM that paging is rare for how I build. But others have reported on using the -1 in contexts where paging was heavy at times and OOM kills had been happening that were eliminated by the assignment (more built). I've no experience with the below alternative to that -1 use: # # For possibly insufficient swap/paging space # (might run out), increase the pageout delay # that leads to Out Of Memory killing of # processes: #vm.pfault_oom_attempts= ??? #vm.pfault_oom_wait= ??? # (The multiplication is the total but there # are other potential tradoffs in the factors # multiplied, even for nearly the same total.) There are folks that have used the likes of: vm.pageout_oom_seq=1200 (but I do not know if such was necessary for their context.) I'm not claiming that these 3 vm.??? figures are always sufficient. Nor am I claiming that tunables are always available that would be sufficient. Nor that it is easy to find the ones that do exist that might help for specific OOM kill issues. === Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com ( dsl-only.net went away in early 2018-Mar)