From owner-freebsd-security@freebsd.org Thu Jun 30 23:18:56 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-security@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1B13B869FC for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2016 23:18:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@behanna.org) Received: from nm19-vm9.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm19-vm9.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.62.66]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 845552015 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2016 23:18:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@behanna.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1467328526; bh=+JGY2G7Y276D0nSidFU2Kz5iL0JYQUQrFqN8qlsmKp0=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:References:To:From:Subject; b=rychxj1dA7SVcAQHxEtOeXe7zL1LWewMABrcB2Aowk/niKFlJrs9Zks0zRq4rRwyhnjjpQgIU5cBrD3Cs2cyv+tUBZHKBoHUh1TSB2IVKluYeiGXl7kJWgTfg8j42xuqrAbBoPbkZeKm1exdcnljbbJx7I2vMeLNbWN5QuC4yzCXhRmR5wFWcHp0Ndphof7F1tKh1TIQ80012LIM3eb/Q6IK3W/ejl72z1ulWO3zptIXRb+aSjudfK540/UvFdld5JDtFILiyEp9eeUw6NW7HLq8CAB6mlV6pYjfR+PyCpWLuOj8x1NUjT8bfruaTo14XMp3k9S3y7KjaajMQtnmLA== Received: from [216.39.60.172] by nm19.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jun 2016 23:15:26 -0000 Received: from [67.195.23.144] by tm8.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jun 2016 23:15:26 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp116.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jun 2016 23:15:26 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 856835.56531.bm@smtp116.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: EswQbCkVM1mrHej9vrivaOXkG2n0W0Wk0nDQAMN7vKqgRoR kprfvIjgQEkEmLL.4_FqQofonrreiWI1PICEDNgAOjCR8Ox96ApTODX5t9h_ lSogWNR1noyNzwPorfERSNB670LblT2he4snAnKvJjobcx49NZm3Zh4ociYB uRTOcQEhkz7FgtoEH_ajYVDsD9ct3I8RQ7_uZCSxZ8_gOEsN7rF6g6SxuYrM bGxVdOLq37jN4liVPQyMbhXx.wWPMAHc7vKa7CV7tZTl6JvFVju9T3wBHoeU UslnKDDp_XXcfbctTqVqNI.1bt4sWmrhR8zANdMsCTa4RJe82wHB.ZYydbi1 E1MXAMc6i23Ivu3E.HBt5hiuHpUGDmX0wc.1wajL6EcIebv36vyq2Yz9qacZ cG8mVhZNBoL30OZgg16SfcawGVTj5RvT3AovT2hAb11keQRF2Vva0xHxIFM7 3qfqB9Zm4r8E72xfOM8hD2_VYtPwuQ0.aATxSjO5EyiYQcvsoCJFlgHJlVPy z9tMBXSBmWesNKDUNlz4ZRCeM5NuCriPRGXcy67yj51Nnit45.XwlwCr6Dc. TdVMRHigjB1XYhVWgQV.Q76E- X-Yahoo-SMTP: IImPLAuswBCrx2RdXZGWc4UZbB59Q8rbW69ykY5boJ7l_g-- Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Stuff I don't understand, and maybe never will. From: Chris BeHanna X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (13F69) In-Reply-To: <15664.1467320198@server1.tristatelogic.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 18:15:24 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1767EE85-222D-4773-83B9-F773958CE092@behanna.org> References: <15664.1467320198@server1.tristatelogic.com> To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 23:18:56 -0000 On Jun 30, 2016, at 15:56, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote= : > In essentially every other industry, crappy dangerous products, sold > to the public en mass (and generally with no warnings) can be taken > to task in a U.S. court of law. But not software. In this way, > software is in rare and elite good company with other marvelous > products which are also and likewise immune from product liability > actions, in particular tobacco and firearms. Groan. I just love FUD, don't you? Firearms are most definitely NOT "immune from product liability actions." I= f one fails to function in the manner it was designed, and someone is injure= d as a result, the manufacturer most certainly is NOT immune from liability.= If it fires out of battery and the user gets a faceful of burning powder a= nd brass, yup, liability. If the firearm catastrophically fails and it's no= t user error, the manufacturer is most certainly NOT immune from liability. = If the weapon fires while the safety is engaged, or when dropped muzzle-fi= rst, the manufacturer is most certainly NOT immune from liability.=20 Now, if the nonsense you're peddling is that you're upset that manufacturers= aren't liable for the blatant, deliberate, criminal misuse of their product= s, that's quite a different thing. We don't, for example, hold an auto manu= facturer responsible if a crazed soccer mom or a loser twenty-something mows= down a sidewalk full of people, nor should we, nor do we hold the FreeBSD Fo= undation liable if someone uses FreeBSD to craft a worm or virus, or to comm= it some other cybercrime.=20 --=20 Chris BeHanna chris@behanna.org=