From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 17 21:57:36 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6639416A418 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:57:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 006AC13C447 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:57:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id C869620BB; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:57:27 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: -0.1/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on tim.des.no Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7079A2049; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:57:27 +0100 (CET) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4E3B084492; Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:57:27 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: davids@webmaster.com References: Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:57:27 +0100 In-Reply-To: (David Schwartz's message of "Mon\, 17 Dec 2007 12\:59\:06 -0800") Message-ID: <868x3trnlk.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/22.1 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Rob , FreeBSD Chat , "Tedm@Toybox. Placo. Com" , Andrew Falanga Subject: Re: Suggestions please for what POP or IMAP servers to use X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:57:36 -0000 "David Schwartz" writes: > Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav writes: > > No. At the time (1995), Microsoft had no clue about what the Internet > > was and how important it would become. That was the year they launched > > their own dialup service modeled after AOL, and the year _The Road > > Ahead_, in which Bill Gates's ghost writer predicted that MSN would > > become the dominant computer network, was released (read the original, > > not the later revised edition which papered over the worst blunders). > > Microsoft expected to end up in control of client, network and content. > > It wasn't until 1996 that they did an about-face and bet, if not the > > farm, then at least a barn or two on the Internet. > So you're saying that long before Microsoft saw any importance to the > Internet, they felt that it was important to give away IE so they > could extort money from companies like Verisign to get their keys > included? If you don't see the Internet and ecommerce as important, > why would you think anyone would pay millions of dollars to get their > key in? Internet Explorer didn't get SSL support until 2.0 in late 1995. Even then, it wasn't until 3.0 in late 1996 that people started using IE. I was a staff member at a large IT event in early 1996 where Microsoft tried to hand out free IE 2.0 CDs; nobody wanted them. > In any event, your argument is contradicted by the historical record, > from US v. Microsoft: > > ""Certain statements of Microsoft executives proffered by plaintiffs > indicate that the company recognized the impending danger. For > example, Microsoft CEO Bill Gates stated that the Netscape/Java > combination threatens to "commoditize" the operating system. See > B. Gates 5/26/95 e-mail (PI Ex. 2). Following a 1997 meeting with > Mr. Gates, Microsoft's Ben Slivka described Java as "the biggest > threat to Microsoft" and wrote to Mr. Gates that "clearly the work the > Java team is doing has hit a raw nerve with you." SJ Opp'n Ex. 60. And > in an essay posted on Microsoft's Web site, Mr. Gates recognized the > potential of Netscape's browser to "become a de facto platform for > software development, ultimately replacing Windows as the mainstream > set of software standards." States' PI Ex. 3. Other Microsoft > executives recognized browsers as "alternative platform[s] to > Windows," B. Silverberg Internet Platforms & Tools Div. Mtg. Agenda > (emphasis in original) (PI Ex. 33), that might eventually "obsolete" > Windows. B. Chase 4/4/97 e-mail (PI Ex. 15). One Vice President warned > that "[t]he situation is threatening our operating systems and desktop > applications share at a fundamental level," and declared: "Netscape > pollution must be eradicated." J. Raikes 8/13/96 memo (PI Ex. 34)."" Java was little more than a toy in 1995, and Netscape did not support it until Navigator 2.0 was released in March, 1996. There was no way Microsoft could consider "the Netscape / Java combination" a threat in May 1995, because it simply did not exist. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no