From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 12 14:19:13 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04DF316A46B for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:19:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE57C13C4E7 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:19:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8A0E46B86; Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:00:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:00:35 +0000 (GMT) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Timo Schoeler In-Reply-To: <20080112145146.6f196ede.timo.schoeler@riscworks.net> Message-ID: <20080112135630.I36731@fledge.watson.org> References: <200801111917.m0BJHP8u018954@lurza.secnetix.de> <86y7av5fbt.fsf@ds4.des.no> <20080112145146.6f196ede.timo.schoeler@riscworks.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: Dag-Erling =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD's problems as seen by the BSDForen.de community X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:19:13 -0000 On Sat, 12 Jan 2008, Timo Schoeler wrote: >>>>> (I don't even think bsdforen.de is the largest German BSD community, but >>>>> that's a different story). >>>> Even in case it's the second biggest forum, it shouldn't be ignored; >>> I agree completely, it shouldn't be ignored. (Whether it's the first, >>> second or third biggest forum doesn't matter at all; it can't be easily >>> measured anyway.) >> >> BSDForen.de is a native-language forum, and I suspect it suffers from the >> same problems as other native-language fora: they become closed communities >> with little or no contact with the parent community, and over time they >> construct their own mythology of how that community functions and acts. > > Sorry, but (especially in this case) that is nonsense as it's primarily an > excuse and disparages the work done there. There's another element in play here -- FreeBSD.org is a mailing list-centric community driven by people who are very much part of the e-mail world. For many newer computer users, e-mail is the old world, and the new world is instant messaging and web forums. Many developers I've talked to feel quite uncomfortable with the medium of web forums, and therefore don't tend to use them. If our newer user communities are forming around web forums (i.e., for PC-BSD), then we do need to find some way to bridge the gap. I have to admit that I live very much in that e-mail world: I tried following the PC-BSD web forums for a bit, but the fact that the messages failed to appear neatly in threads in my mail reader meant it was awkward and inconvenient, and wasn't part of my regular workflow in which I intermittently poll my mail reader while getting other work done, referencing it on occasion with explicit searches, etc. I don't know if there are technical solutions to this problem, but if we want to "meet" many of these newer users of BSD, and hence build up the rapport needed to have a productive relationship, we're either going to have to lure them onto the mailing lists, find our way onto web forums, or find some other technical or social means of getting over that difference. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge