From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 30 17:34:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D90416A4CE; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:34:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from saturn.criticalmagic.com (saturn.criticalmagic.com [68.213.16.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7CA843FEA; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:33:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from richardcoleman@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (titan.criticalmagic.com [68.213.16.23]) by saturn.criticalmagic.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B3133BD10; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:33:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FCA9A92.3060301@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:34:10 -0500 From: Richard Coleman Organization: Critical Magic, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthias Andree References: <200311281553.hASFrURT003309@siralan.org> <86fzg8scn5.fsf@borg.borderworlds.dk> <20031129142508.GA46034@titan.klemm.apsfilter.org> <20031129212652.GC8768@xor.obsecurity.org> <3FC955E3.3070608@FreeBSD.org> <3FCA10A4.2020409@mindspring.com> <20031130163517.GA70858@titan.klemm.apsfilter.org> <3FCA652F.3080001@mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: ports@FreeBSD.org cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org cc: Oliver Eikemeier cc: Andreas Klemm cc: Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: Ports startup scripts in /etc/rc.d (Re: 5.2-BETA and related ports issues) X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: richardcoleman@mindspring.com List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 01:34:02 -0000 Matthias Andree wrote: > Richard Coleman writes: > > >>But that kinda defeats the purpose of RCNG. One of the best features of >>RCNG is that it makes it easier to add/delete applications from the >>system. Not using it for this purpose reduces its utility. >> >>Let's not let the typical BSD traditionalism get in the way of using >>RCNG for what it's designed. Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating >>Linux-style integration of packages/ports. But this seems fairly >>harmless. > > > Ports belong into /usr/local, not into /etc. There should be some hook > that allows port start scripts to run before some base system scripts, > and if Oliver's two-staged "reevaluate" approach supports this with / > and /usr in separate partitions, then why not take his suggestion? > > There's nothing that prevents RCNG from stretching out its fangs to > /usr/local/etc/rc*, in fact, hier(7) encourages that. > > If I get the picture right, what's suggested is that after mounting > local file systems, the RC order is re-evaluated, and again after > mounting remote file systems ("diskless"). This would allow the system > to gradually complete its /etc/rc* picture. > > Another idea would be to use unionfs or something to keep > /usr/local/etc/rc.d in the root partition for real, and when it's > shadowed by the actual /usr/local or /usr mount, punch a hole so you can > look at the rootfs with unionfs or something. I'd like Oliver's > suggestion better though. > I guess I'm not really arguing for putting the startup scripts for ports in /etc/rc.d (contradicting what I said earlier). But I do think that RCNG/rcorder needs to be extended to handle ports. And it needs to be done in a more comprehensive fashion than just adding special hooks for backend databases. The multiple rcorder evaluation method you mention sounds like a good place to start. The unionfs idea is also interesting. But I doubt many people trust it enough to use it for this purpose. It's a shame really, but that's another discussion. Richard Coleman richardcoleman@mindspring.com