From nobody Mon Jan 15 21:38:39 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4TDQWp2BdRz57d5p for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2024 21:39:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marietto2008@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ej1-x62f.google.com (mail-ej1-x62f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4TDQWn6vFPz3xBr for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2024 21:39:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marietto2008@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-ej1-x62f.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-a2d7e2e7fe0so307421166b.1 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2024 13:39:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1705354756; x=1705959556; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=fo9C4SpQtcQZgmZf8Prg5v951M9sdjvLAxES4Qhj+Nw=; b=HV7yexaN/oQUyP+tlhoLwwJJbat5CLh9YXOnf6YbBm+5Or+t+GbyQ3YKn7Q6OEjSVF XMGPaa/KpLbYh6U5edWASeNt9A4fLyqYe6V/G3wxbv56BQRafbJGD5qTeoNzDMWT5WkI DHrHHTNP7Ye7MxNsfY5/ZBAPTYR3m72UARiQCIUEB2Kb+HF9Ih+oojAEOZh6ZYmF7s2Q vzkMpX1iYBDnvhAUi614pySePp9hqWwyBP1NHsmncgpOZ+AQ7KOOvJ/G3IxCzYKDY2ss HK9/OZPe1OQzgRLrbVzvUcRRa2NWGYgV3qLbsYX6GcegnwrMKKSJj4cY588wA+AR+dsq WSCA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1705354756; x=1705959556; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=fo9C4SpQtcQZgmZf8Prg5v951M9sdjvLAxES4Qhj+Nw=; b=rl/tnCAwQqrEGRLkPIZCJ1aOjwsXscqOLr5xbrUIVHPxXxm7qGNFhuqklbtUwqyMpH 4GSRr4ntGsXF4xTGtOwsJx79n5ufy2XMnsSWqGaTG2tMnJXmONKrDafXWBiH0JixyUfV PA1nr4S31hLep5FUMcFhsPjijQwu2EmcCKm1OfbO0eX/hfqzf4A2+Gf649uHDqtzFk4o dDql7B0CsSHxd/4QLvDQ8RRT9NRe0pa/TwWGvzGuLSDyqei0Tx8/UCE6WjMHBgH949lJ 09lVx11n0uAVA88quK4y0F01QymI1DETQQ/pMtAx2GA8zTQ+EGx8Ccq3SmD+jJQ240sd bJXg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyJABPVKAa/gDehLP3llVKJfJHi3pIlKkB/ZuvqujwTG34PpRv6 G7noXQE/igqbqyggjKC7Bw6LrKQED39iRVAmfTBZq0p8lr0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGe3VYVALgfE3yzVQyG9XcEo7OzKhFl5ROG1vzUiIb43WM1O4VHWPSjozflAgV662yRuAaSqqriKoLn6bHNHyE= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:ee1:b0:a2a:212:cfe5 with SMTP id x1-20020a1709060ee100b00a2a0212cfe5mr5223253eji.12.1705354756260; Mon, 15 Jan 2024 13:39:16 -0800 (PST) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Mario Marietto Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2024 22:38:39 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: How to upgrade an EOL FreeBSD release or how to make it working again To: paul beard Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007687a8060f02d869" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4TDQWn6vFPz3xBr X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] --0000000000007687a8060f02d869 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What is NetBSD for ? On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 9:53=E2=80=AFPM paul beard wr= ote: > This is usually where someone asks if OP has heard of NetBSD. > > https://www.netbsd.org > > On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 10:16=E2=80=AFAM David Chisnall > wrote: > >> On 15 Jan 2024, at 16:46, Mario Marietto wrote: >> > >> > The ARM Chromebook is based on armv7,it is still recent. >> >> For reference, the ARMv7 architecture was introduced in 2005. The last >> cores that implemented the architecture were released in 2014. This is = not >> a =E2=80=98recent=E2=80=99 architecture, it=E2=80=99s one that=E2=80=99s= 19 years old and has been largely >> dead for several years. >> >> > But let's change perspective for a moment,don't think about the ARM >> Chromebook. My question is : how to upgrade FreeBSD when it goes EOL. >> >> Generally, run `freebsd-update`. This is a very different question from >> =E2=80=98how do I do a new install of an old an unsupported version?' >> >> > I ask this because there is a huge difference here between FreeBSD and >> Linux. Today if you need to use , for example Ubuntu 14.0, you can use i= t >> as is. Yes,there will be a lot of bugs,but it will work without crashes. >> But if you want to use an old FreeBSD system,nothing will work for you. >> So,do you know some methods to install even packages or ports ? You >> know,there are cases when you need to do some experiments so that you ca= n >> keep your machine off the internet,so you aren't scared that someone can >> compromise it. Totally prohibiting the users to use an old system,removi= ng >> ports and packages is not a choice that I approve of. And I'm not the on= ly >> one that thinks like this. >> >> If you want to use an old and unsupported version of FreeBSD, no one is >> stopping you, but: >> >> - You will need to build the releases. The source code is still in git= , >> you can. The scripts for building the release images are right there in >> the repo. Just grab the relevant release or releng branch and go. >> >> - You will need to build packages. Newer versions of the ports tree >> will not be tested with the older release, so you may need to use an old= er >> checkout of the ports tree. Poudriere will build a package repo for you= . >> >> In both cases, if you=E2=80=99re using older versions you almost certain= ly *will* >> have security vulnerabilities. The project strongly advises you not to = do >> this and not to blame us when you install known-insecure software and en= d >> up compromised. >> >> The project does not have enough active contributors to keep maintaining >> things indefinitely. This is why release have a five-year supported >> lifetime. If you want to pick up an old branch and maintain it, you=E2= =80=99re >> welcome to. In the past, companies have picked up old branches and >> maintained them for customers that had a dependency on them. If you wan= t >> to pay someone to maintain an old branch (and have deep pockets) then th= ere >> are probably a few companies that will happily take your money. >> >> Maintaining binaries is a slightly different issue, but it=E2=80=99s not= totally >> unrelated. Keeping old packages around consumes disk space and costs th= e >> project money (remember, every package is mirrored across the CDN, so th= is >> isn=E2=80=99t just a single disk). Even if it were free, philosophicall= y, I think >> making it easy for users to install known-insecure software is a bad ide= a >> but if you want to keep a package repo with out-of-date packages online >> indefinitely then you can. You can run Poudriere and even cross-compile >> from a fairly beefy cloud machine quite easily. >> >> It=E2=80=99s been a while since I did a full package build, but I would = guess >> that you could do a single package build (all ports) for about $50 on a >> cloud VM, more (2-3x) if it=E2=80=99s emulated. Storing the results for= a small >> number of users will cost around $10-20/month. If you think this is an >> important thing to do, then you are absolutely welcome to spend your own >> money on doing it. >> >> David >> >> >> > > -- > Paul Beard / www.paulbeard.org/ > --=20 Mario. --0000000000007687a8060f02d869 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What is NetBSD for ?

On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 9:53=E2= =80=AFPM paul beard <paulbeard@gm= ail.com> wrote:
This is usually where someone asks if OP has heard = of NetBSD.=C2=A0


On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 1= 0:16=E2=80=AFAM David Chisnall <theraven@freebsd.org> wrote:
On 15 Jan 2024, at 16:46, Mario Marie= tto <mariett= o2008@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The ARM Chromebook is based on armv7,it is still recent.

For reference, the ARMv7 architecture was introduced in 2005.=C2=A0 The las= t cores that implemented the architecture were released in 2014.=C2=A0 This= is not a =E2=80=98recent=E2=80=99 architecture, it=E2=80=99s one that=E2= =80=99s 19 years old and has been largely dead for several years.

> But let's change perspective for a moment,don't think about th= e ARM Chromebook. My question is : how to upgrade FreeBSD when it goes EOL.=

Generally, run `freebsd-update`.=C2=A0 This is a very different question fr= om =E2=80=98how do I do a new install of an old an unsupported version?'= ;

> I ask this because there is a huge difference here between FreeBSD and= Linux. Today if you need to use , for example Ubuntu 14.0, you can use it = as is. Yes,there will be a lot of bugs,but it will work without crashes.=C2= =A0 But if you want to use an old FreeBSD system,nothing will work for you.= So,do you know some methods to install even packages or ports ? You know,t= here are cases when you need to do some experiments so that you can keep yo= ur machine off the internet,so you aren't scared that someone can compr= omise it. Totally prohibiting the users to use an old system,removing ports= and packages is not a choice that I approve of. And I'm not the only o= ne that thinks like this.

If you want to use an old and unsupported version of FreeBSD, no one is sto= pping you, but:

=C2=A0- You will need to build the releases.=C2=A0 The source code is still= in git, you can.=C2=A0 The scripts for building the release images are rig= ht there in the repo.=C2=A0 Just grab the relevant release or releng branch= and go.

=C2=A0- You will need to build packages.=C2=A0 Newer versions of the ports = tree will not be tested with the older release, so you may need to use an o= lder checkout of the ports tree.=C2=A0 Poudriere will build a package repo = for you.=C2=A0

In both cases, if you=E2=80=99re using older versions you almost certainly = *will* have security vulnerabilities.=C2=A0 The project strongly advises yo= u not to do this and not to blame us when you install known-insecure softwa= re and end up compromised.

The project does not have enough active contributors to keep maintaining th= ings indefinitely.=C2=A0 This is why release have a five-year supported lif= etime.=C2=A0 If you want to pick up an old branch and maintain it, you=E2= =80=99re welcome to.=C2=A0 In the past, companies have picked up old branch= es and maintained them for customers that had a dependency on them.=C2=A0 I= f you want to pay someone to maintain an old branch (and have deep pockets)= then there are probably a few companies that will happily take your money.=

Maintaining binaries is a slightly different issue, but it=E2=80=99s not to= tally unrelated.=C2=A0 Keeping old packages around consumes disk space and = costs the project money (remember, every package is mirrored across the CDN= , so this isn=E2=80=99t just a single disk).=C2=A0 Even if it were free, ph= ilosophically, I think making it easy for users to install known-insecure s= oftware is a bad idea but if you want to keep a package repo with out-of-da= te packages online indefinitely then you can.=C2=A0 You can run Poudriere a= nd even cross-compile from a fairly beefy cloud machine quite easily.

It=E2=80=99s been a while since I did a full package build, but I would gue= ss that you could do a single package build (all ports) for about $50 on a = cloud VM, more (2-3x) if it=E2=80=99s emulated.=C2=A0 Storing the results f= or a small number of users will cost around $10-20/month.=C2=A0 If you thin= k this is an important thing to do, then you are absolutely welcome to spen= d your own money on doing it.

David




--
Pa= ul Beard / www.paul= beard.org/


--
Mario.
--0000000000007687a8060f02d869--