From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Aug 29 15:01:31 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BDA7D86A3; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 15:01:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from araujobsdport@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lj1-x242.google.com (mail-lj1-x242.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::242]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46K5RH2jN9z3J1S; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 15:01:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from araujobsdport@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lj1-x242.google.com with SMTP id x3so3371009lji.5; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 08:01:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=3ZnXP+zKpmB0LU+a5ZZE56+58oJErxdNO5Cw30lJ9Nc=; b=iyca442rNhBaC5GvY3I1J6rgHOTFCFbvwuCShgpJxVmZb74FqKKdh5IsPeyVEt6dCR oifbq6ShTCSnFsiQ07i3/j/FcQIGs7kzPfYWi5OmbQj6c51POInk6/2x3PstpgX3BKIR uXTDUv8qPwg726H4f+ZAkA99OXf2//jVd/TN4zRNHHJigUoKbiY+fzd5GuO7aWg7lCCB Y+MXnREBJ2nFOo/h1p1jU2Lbg+olpTuXjzUtvGFmLLRuMy9gEcG3AG/EvnkRCHmLsZA2 +LVmcv9XLTJkiCYgO7qQbCJFw/ZBmD4NTY8WUxsVRPbmtPcV3IKW/rMrYNCHc1mGi3mh EapQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3ZnXP+zKpmB0LU+a5ZZE56+58oJErxdNO5Cw30lJ9Nc=; b=hENPB6nko6iBiLvVo8/4XF3UQddmaLI6vzsy9wDfsTc65xx4SF5Pj4hjPOCJwM0PIm Xsm3AbxiuSkvUXOiyi0Pi5kmHwIHpRE3Ot//sWfc4TY87h4XX0mbF0mLwj7dMA4gJXpL 1PEC1E4x+vh7Qn+iiMp4nypDImsgO4SLndnP2gpKPMAHK1DoZkqisCly+WzdgT27M93C 3Gl5+xFh7pdINtw4TDI7XulxETwki2+2pkmXb13y2TgkXDRLqJfUYB3Ws2JvbUjAFqN3 D4dx4HMPsjRnBgAZy8IZI53xczNxSXPkZYUl9OMJ18Ph5gK/5mBlwaRaR6Qkc6Wsg8ML ig6Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVmzLZcsSBnLBJkyV5M6AgDn7VpOmwpDe0iOV64TASvXXrob4Zd WKvze9TAG/K9uDA0Tiq7fhO9IzJIo3G5BSl7v06UnYdmnPY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzv8wycrFM8IQuvkvHTJcg4qdljRE7bJUUQ1m0UndetIGa91MEK55ybN55nm3tOrLGoUh5OdxFsxtcAOpMGeSw= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:81ca:: with SMTP id s10mr5692168ljg.181.1567090889056; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 08:01:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190829114057.GZ71821@kib.kiev.ua> <28934eb780342605090bf365ac3a2e0d522256f5.camel@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: Reply-To: araujo@freebsd.org From: Marcelo Araujo Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 23:01:17 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FCP 20190401-ci_policy: CI policy To: Kristof Provost Cc: Ian Lepore , Konstantin Belousov , FreeBSD Hackers , Li-Wen Hsu , fcp@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 46K5RH2jN9z3J1S X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.98 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.982,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 15:01:31 -0000 Em qui, 29 de ago de 2019 =C3=A0s 22:54, Kristof Provost escreveu: > On 29 Aug 2019, at 16:42, Ian Lepore wrote: > > (And I don't think breaking a test counts as > > breaking the build.) > > > I fundamentally disagree on this point. A test failure is, just like a > compiler warning, a precious gift that should not be ignored. > The more distance (both in terms of time, and in terms of the people > involved) there is between a bug being introduced and it being detected > the harder it is to fix it. Test accelerate detection of bugs. If we do > not take test failures seriously (i.e. as an indication something is > wrong and should be fixed) the tests will inevitable become useless in > one of two ways: we=E2=80=99ll either disable failing tests (which is wha= t we > tend to do now) reducing test coverage or we=E2=80=99ll have a test suite= with > many failures in it, which makes it useless as well. (As with compiler > warnings, the best way to keep them under control is to consider them to > be fatal errors.) > Could you elaborate where is the "fundamentally" you disagree? Where is the fundament? You guys are introducing something new, yes everybody knows about test, it is year 2019, but nobody can come with new rules tha in hours we gonna revert if you "dare to don't fix it". Sorry, this is not how people test software and fix it. > > In either scenario we end up reducing test coverage, which means we=E2=80= =99re > going to push more bugs towards users. > > > I totally agree. This is an overly-bureaucratic solution in search of > > a problem. > > > > If this needs to be addressed at all (and I'm not sure it does), then > > another sentence or two in bullet item 10 in section 18.1 [*] of the > > committer's guide should be enough. And even then it needn't be > > overly-formal and should just mention that if a commit does break the > > build the committer is expected to be responsive to that problem and > > the commit might get reverted if they're unresponsive. I don't think > > we need schedules. > > > I do feel that=E2=80=99s a better argument. We=E2=80=99ve always had a po= licy of > reverting on request (AIUI), so this is more or less trying to be a > strong restatement of that, more than a fundamental shift in policy. > We don't have a policy to revert commit, actually revert commit is something bad, it is kind of punishment, I have been there, nobody wants to be there. Stop to push this non-sense argument. > > Best regards, > Kristof > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " > --=20 --=20 Marcelo Araujo (__)araujo@FreeBSD.org \\\'',)http://www.FreeBSD.org \/ \ ^ Power To Server. .\. /_)