Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 20:07:25 -0400 From: "Zaphod Beeblebrox" <zbeeble@gmail.com> To: "Evren Yurtesen" <yurtesen@ispro.net> Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: continuous backup solution for FreeBSD Message-ID: <5f67a8c40810061707m33a52547idae13e2bb9eb2f9a@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <48EA9459.2000807@ispro.net> References: <48E9E1BB.6020908@ispro.net> <001AD718-D25B-421B-8B0F-CE71FA5A7CF0@gid.co.uk> <48EA21AE.80607@ispro.net> <5f67a8c40810060852k4c51c8far511891c4b135a1e2@mail.gmail.com> <48EA6939.6090405@ispro.net> <5f67a8c40810061508t300e77c7n8c1439462622a71c@mail.gmail.com> <48EA9459.2000807@ispro.net>
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On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 6:42 PM, Evren Yurtesen <yurtesen@ispro.net> wrote: > Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: > >> Actually, right back at you. You didn't fathom the meaning in my >> statement. While your post was vague, I read the company's website to >> > > While Hammer might be doing a similar job, it is a filesystem not a backup > application and it wont replace backups. It doesnt just store the data in a > backup server. While eventually it might become a backup solution, it will > take years before that can happen. Even then, people will not just switch > their current filesystems overnight. The CDP backup softwares are available > today, it just needs a sort of driver to function in current system. > >From my reading, Hammer is much more than a filesystem, but then you probably havn't read about it yet. By my reading, Hammer hits all their feature points and does it better _because_ it's a filesystem. Well... "I" am not missing it. I have that without making my filesystem > jump through an enormous hoop. But designing "my" application correctly, I > have that feature for far less effort. (that was the other point of my > post) > Can you just explain how can one currently do that in FreeBSD? Is it as easy > as in Linux with CDP backup softwares? such as installing a program and > done? > It's relatively simple. Database replication solves the data backup problem (I don't store application data outside the database). Database replication for both MySQL and PostgreSQL is relatively straight forward. As for the configuration of code and servers --- that is taken care of with configuration management (it's really a bigger issue than just backing up a filesystem) and installing a new server to take a place in the cluster is a straight forward checkout from the CM system. For things I really care about staying up, add VRRP and an application design that is fault tolerant. This actually works rather well if you do your research. Database replication is possible at all kinds of different link speeds and distances. Database replication also allows you to control your data better --- you know more about your data than a block replicator would. It means that your backup is already live and it means that, with the right scripts, invoking a backup on primary failure is simple. Database replication on some databases even allows you to preserve transactions --- which is important in some cases. > There is no perfect system. This is exactly why people take backups. If > what you said was applicable then there wouldnt be any need for backup > software. People would just make sure that they dont loose their data. In > addition to this, I have no control of if my customer will delete his/her > data accidentally. I cant make a system which does not allow customers to > delete data. > > I have given an example of a simple solution that Linux users can utilize > (which obviously we also can utilize if we put our heads into it and give > some directions as r1soft is willing to support FreeBSD). While you are > first saying that these can be achieved with far simpler solutions, at the > same time you are saying that the dev team must be smart enough. > > My solution is simple enough to write here. You install Linux on all > machines and then CDP backup server on the backup server and CDP agent on > the client machines, is yours simpler? Then explain how we can create > similar sort of data protection? Well... no. Backup software and strategies are just one available tool for risk mitigation. To know what tools you require, you must define your risks. Then with your list of risks you look at the cost of each tool and find the toolset that suits you. By the responses in this thread, it seems like the set of FreeBSD developers and the set of people who desire this solution are disjoint. Actually... as some obligatory positive content, the time travel features of Hammer should be straightforward to implement in ZFS... are ZFS modules supported on FreeBSD yet? It would seem to be a logical module.
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