From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Apr 1 14:46:43 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 63C93907; Tue, 1 Apr 2014 14:46:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mx1.fisglobal.com", Issuer "VeriSign Class 3 Secure Server CA - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2BA45C68; Tue, 1 Apr 2014 14:46:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smarthost.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.193]) by ltcfislmsgpa04.fnfis.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s31EkTAG030955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 1 Apr 2014 09:46:29 -0500 Received: from THEMADHATTER (10.242.181.54) by smarthost.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.193) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.174.1; Tue, 1 Apr 2014 09:46:26 -0500 From: Sender: Devin Teske To: "'Eitan Adler'" , , , References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: Leaving the Desktop Market Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 07:46:16 -0700 Message-ID: <082a01cf4db9$240d3e90$6c27bbb0$@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 15.0 Thread-Index: AQGHdVWSFOXlP15hf4gexL3l1E1JDZuMhnNw Content-Language: en-us X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.11.87, 1.0.14, 0.0.0000 definitions=2014-04-01_05:2014-04-01,2014-04-01,1970-01-01 signatures=0 Cc: dteske@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 14:46:43 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Eitan Adler [mailto:lists@eitanadler.com] > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 10:47 PM > To: hackers@freebsd.org; current@freebsd.org; freebsd- > advocacy@freebsd.org > Subject: Leaving the Desktop Market >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > Some of you may have seen my posts entitled "Story of a Laptop User" > and "Story of a Desktop User". For those of you who did not, it can be a > worthwhile read to see what life is like when using FreeBSD as a desktop.= In > short, it is an educational experience. While FreeBSD can be coerced to = do > the right thing, it is rarely there by default and often doesn't work as = well as > we would expect. >=20 > The following are issues I haven't brought up in the past: >=20 > Battery life sucks: it=E2=80=99s almost as if powerd wasn't running. Wi= ndows can run > for five hours on my laptop while FreeBSD can barely make it two hours. I > wonder what the key differences are? Likely it=E2=80=99s that we focus s= o much on > performance that no one considers power. ChromeOS can run for 12 hours > on some hardware; why can't we make FreeBSD run for 16? >=20 > Sound configuration lacks key documentation: how can I automatically > change between headphones and external speakers? You can't even do > that in middle of a song at all! Trust me that you never want to be star= ing at > an HDA pin configuration. I'll bet you couldn't even get sound streaming= to > other machines working if you tried. >=20 > FreeBSD lacks vendor credibility: CUDA is unsupported. Dropbox hasn't > released a client for FreeBSD. Nvidia Optimus doesn't function on FreeBS= D. > Can you imagine telling someone to purchase a laptop with the caveat: "but > you won't be able to use your graphics card"? >=20 > In any case, half of our desktop support is emulation: flash and opera on= ly > works because of the linuxulator. There really isn't any reason for vend= ors to > bother supporting FreeBSD if we are just going to ape Linux anyways. >=20 > That is why on this date I propose that we cease competing on the desktop > market. FreeBSD should declare 2014 to be "year of the Linux desktop" and > start to rip out the pieces of the OS not needed for server or embedded u= se. >=20 > Some of you may point to PCBSD and say that we have a chance, but I must > ask you: how does one flavor stand up to the thousands in the Linux world? >=20 Eitan, While I understand your frustration, VICOR is using FreeBSD as a Desktop si= nce FreeBSD 2.2. We don't use sound and we are fine relying on vesa. While I understand that the things you listed are actual short-comings for = normal Desktop users, I think it's the wrong decision to say that we should be ba= cking out *any* functionality that would make the Desktop any more difficult to produce. As it stands, it would take me weeks just to count the number of workstatio= ns that are running a GUI, rely on one of the existing video drivers (nv, rade= on, mach64, etc.) and use lots of Desktop ports. --=20 Devin _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidentia= l. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message an= d all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any ma= nner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware= that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and revie= w by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you.