From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 11 14:12:27 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE0EF16A400 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 14:12:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from redbull.bpaserver.net (redbullneu.bpaserver.net [213.198.78.217]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20ED213C480 for ; Fri, 11 May 2007 14:12:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from outgoing.leidinger.net (p54a5e6b4.dip.t-dialin.net [84.165.230.180]) by redbull.bpaserver.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67F662E1A5; Fri, 11 May 2007 16:12:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from webmail.leidinger.net (webmail.Leidinger.net [192.168.1.102]) by outgoing.leidinger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5CAC5B48A3; Fri, 11 May 2007 16:12:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from www@localhost) by webmail.leidinger.net (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id l4BEC0nt061925; Fri, 11 May 2007 16:12:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from pslux.cec.eu.int (pslux.cec.eu.int [158.169.9.14]) by webmail.leidinger.net (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Fri, 11 May 2007 16:12:00 +0200 Message-ID: <20070511161200.w7tzoc5mkg8og44c@webmail.leidinger.net> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 16:12:00 +0200 From: Alexander Leidinger To: Dag-Erling =?utf-8?b?U23Dg8K4cmdyYXY=?= References: <200705102105.27271.blackdragon@highveldmail.co.za> <17987.52037.112351.872442@bhuda.mired.org> <20070511015156.GA77895@xor.obsecurity.org> <86zm4b3h7h.fsf@dwp.des.no> <20070511082657.GA24652@xor.obsecurity.org> <86sla33gkm.fsf@dwp.des.no> In-Reply-To: <86sla33gkm.fsf@dwp.des.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.4) / FreeBSD-7.0 X-BPAnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-BPAnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-BPAnet-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-14.564, required 8, BAYES_00 -15.00, DK_POLICY_SIGNSOME 0.00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO 0.14, MIME_8BIT_HEADER 0.30) X-BPAnet-MailScanner-From: alexander@leidinger.net X-Spam-Status: No X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 11 May 2007 14:48:04 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mike, Meyer , Ivan Voras , Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: New FreeBSD package system (a.k.a. Daemon Package System (dps)) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 14:12:27 -0000 Quoting Dag-Erling Sm=C3=83=C2=B8rgrav (from Fri, 11 May 2007 = =20 10:33:29 +0200): > The existence of .la files is a bug. I fully agree. > We already have a mechanism for recording dependencies between > libraries; it's built into the ELF format, and does not require > hardcoding any directories. Introducing .la files which override the > existing mechanism and *do* hardcode directories is a regression. > > I don't buy the argument that "KDE won't build without them", or > whatever it was you used to justify this. There is nothing an .la file > does which can't be done more properly by adding the correct directory > to your ldconfig path. Unfortunately you are addressing this to the wrong people. You need to =20 talk with the libtool people. Trying to use a libtool version which is =20 as closest as possible to the version distributed by the authors is a =20 very sane requirement for our ports collection and the users which =20 expect a sane behavior of libtool when they want to create a tarball =20 which is supposed to be cross-platform (for an appropriate value of =20 cross-platform). So you need to address the issues upstream. As soon as a new release =20 comes out with the improvements you suggest, we will get them in =20 FreeBSD. The problem is that a lot of users of libltdl try to open the =20 .la file instead of the lib (AFAIR libltdl tries to first open the .la =20 then the .so if you don't have a .la or .so ending in the dlopen() =20 string, but most people specify the .la... I could misremember this, =20 it's been a while since I looked at it). The way to go is to teach libtool about the ELF features and to not =20 produce the .la files on ELF systems. Additionally a warning in =20 libltdl needs to printed in case the .la file is used (as a second =20 step maybe adding a long delay to the loading in case a .la file is =20 used, to provoke the transition). While it may be more easy to talk about doing something like this in =20 our ports collection, the way to go is to address this upstream with =20 the libtool authors, and not with portmgr/ade or on hackers/ports. Bye, Alexander. --=20 Law of the Yukon: =09Only the lead dog gets a change of scenery. http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID =3D B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID =3D 72077137