Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:29:20 +1030 From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com> To: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>, "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.cdrom.com>, Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com> Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: O'Reilly article: Whence the Source: Untangling the Open Source/Free Software Debate Message-ID: <19990313112920.O429@lemis.com> In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990312161356.00cb39c0@localhost>; from Brett Glass on Fri, Mar 12, 1999 at 04:26:23PM -0700 References: <Your <199903121940.MAA23571@usr01.primenet.com> <24351.921273950@zippy.cdrom.com> <4.1.19990312161356.00cb39c0@localhost>
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On Friday, 12 March 1999 at 16:26:23 -0700, Brett Glass wrote: > At 01:25 PM 3/12/99 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >> Where Mr. Kawasaki is referring to being "fanatical", I don't think >> he's talking about Rottweiler fanaticism where any exposed flesh gets >> a pair of fangs sunk into it, > > Neither do I, Jordan! You seem to be misinterpreting what I have in > mind, possibly because you've seen some of my somewhat strident > messages about the GPL. That's possible. I hope you're right and Jordan is wrong, but I've certainly been interpreting things in exactly the way Jordan has been doing, and I'm sure a lot of the Linux crowd has been too. > The threat posed by the GPL is a different issue from that of > advocacy for FreeBSD (though there is naturally a connection between > the two in that FreeBSD has the better license). Correct. But consider that, if you hype FreeBSD on one occasion and put down the GPL on another, people are going to draw a connection between your perception of the issues. This would not be good for FreeBSD. >> I think he's talking about hyping the product in a highly >> enthusiastic way. > > And so am I. I think your enthusiasm shows some of the characteristics of a Rottweiler, and your response to my criticism yesterday didn't look overly introspective. >> This is further born out by the kinds of press events I remember him >> being involved with back in the 80's. He didn't have people marching >> up and down in front of Microsoft going "Windows sucks! Bill is the >> anti-christ! Eat the rich! Long live Fidel Castro!" - > > Funny, but that's exactly the approach that Richard Stallman uses. > And he got several standing ovations at LinuxWorld immediately > after making such remarks. I don't see the FreeBSD crowd giving him standing ovations. He's an insider in the Linux world, you're making a point of being an outsider. I don't think we need a Stallman. >> that might have attracted a lot of press, but I don't think it was >> as effective as the people he had marching up and down extolling >> the VIRTUES of the Macintosh platform and how much easier it was to >> use. That's the point here - we're not Howard Stern and we're not >> going to make our mark by attack-advertising or telling people >> they're misguided, wrong and stupid for using the GPL. > > The degree to which one can point out the disadvantages of the > competition seems to depend on who the competition is. No one > said that the Linux zealots were out of line even though they > went as far as bashing Microsoft at their "Windows Refund Day" > event. I think that pointing out the competition's weaknesses > CAN be done under the right circumstances, though I agree with > your exhortations to "accentuate the positive." For you, are the Linux people competition or potential allies? >> I guess I have to repeat this like a broken record since people just >> don't get it, it seems, but you win converts by explaining why you >> chose the BSD license and BSD technology, not by calling the other >> side a bunch of morons for making the choices they did. > > Who says I "don't get it?" Again, I think you're reading something > different than what I intended into what I'm saying. He may be, but a lot of people are doing it. I'm sure you mean well for FreeBSD, but as my particular broken record keeps saying, the way people understand what you say puts them off. If a large minority do so, the result is negative for FreeBSD, no matter how good your intentions may be. >> Perhaps Brett has never actually used the world "moron" in his >> various diatribes, but judging by the "audience reaction" that's >> certainly what people read between the lines > > Only a few vociferous zealots have done so. And to some extent, I > think they're overreacting on purpose. I disagree strongly. You say that Jordan and I have misinterpreted what you say. Do you think we're vociferous zealots who over-react on purpose? >> and why I choose to take a much different tack. It's not anywhere >> near as easy to shoot down someone's arguments or dismiss him as a >> crank if he's just telling you what's good about his product vs >> what's bad about yours. > > True. However, in order to compare and contrast the products, one > still must mention the competition's weaknesses. No, this isn't necessary, and in many countries it's illegal. > I think it's a matter of approach. Indeed. It's your approach that concerns us. > This is why I'm proposing that people who are good at taking > different approaches be organized into teams which are then > coordinated to assure the most positive results. My concern is still that you appear too inflexible in your approach. Put you in a team with, say, two others and we'll end up with three people preaching the Gospel according to Brett. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message
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