From nobody Wed Jan 10 10:01:48 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4T93HS3hgrz56TDh for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 10:01:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olce@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4T93HS39Mqz4Clg; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 10:01:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olce@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1704880916; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=I5HgIPBKUxMe25Z/gVqLSUyYorEMi8a43kxe2h5HBTU=; b=nL2GxBYgDCuu0meJQIFTWBWHLTGop68r/Du/A8xFSSpdUa/31PoMn/2cuxlMWgBRvc6E/Q 3Bmdn+SKxbUmpqEL70sX5ebtfElERF/n6zQaDKEnnRZBnzjxESHhsUY3iXdC9YPKUjIofG QHAPLOtBXqZ7pyUlzcIIbxPj+gOfzoRhRNActCoWl9oaZdb87SrH20CAhM/DZyNSACBIFx WgnkcWlxy6A8m7ldQ9AF0XK2qW7/EH52j3rBezT09Lck2FLJfC8zsu7DFWdi8jRgAq5782 ecIy3ABB3iwHd00Ok2RTehpVbVtue6R7TTt2MMoL/mJbAurO7SGHzIcDIUIGUw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1704880916; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=I5HgIPBKUxMe25Z/gVqLSUyYorEMi8a43kxe2h5HBTU=; b=JhK081cQUH9xAKrvLIaiXfImA/1pgslxn8dg/ttbfttIUDOAM8Docs8O8xc2WJ+cFO6VXv e5XxNB8rG1bQX2+hlcxaHBViLcnRuT6oRt5+LOOm+g1DXSntXzwMZS9Mo7KjZQT6IQ81Gp AlLyj08E8yE68nHOKo/srFxcTM4TyAtMFyF3WNRaaHr29o1Vc0I5a5C3HLphFOadpY6DFK 6L5DFZLN3Z3guLKx7z4dt0kqd+fKrSp88KWBqAiurHeCSAmxjb4O2wwjyXEETi2GRENvRD 94S876gq+AIy53xM5/aKmqcP5o2vNKLGelFbuCaClodYHVEOgHnDrlLSzmPQHA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1704880916; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=VY2hFNx/nilBUBt9lK4Bmb2B7gptzwNFRJxfLH++x2x51S0s/7UcQb+ay/naXkGkHr5Lr1 K4KmDRPNx/ocERquzelIAgenDdcupKET349f/qcvNZjuFKb8o9R4hp9tJUbyuoDoYHr5Y+ vLhmdP5cx3dEfP4O04hDd7YatbWNjbpGxcN1RFdRo3BY/8GxM508NcVSYft7WHCQgkkLIm Jy3/L4HnDHoG20CPgrn0ey4L+SG3lFUUxdnWyltRh3UVtH5+PGAdC425pbn4Ej+WCbn3zs 9NbvduFF2jBeLXJOltvsl6nWKJRpZmJJPvtDDLN7X3XL0W/BMgceZ0C35OyO+w== Received: from ravel.localnet (lfbn-nic-1-525-172.w90-118.abo.wanadoo.fr [90.118.140.172]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: olce/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4T93HS044nz12G9; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 10:01:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olce@freebsd.org) From: Olivier Certner To: Warner Losh Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: noatime on ufs2 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:01:48 +0100 Message-ID: <1749331.ETpRK2a2Mi@ravel> In-Reply-To: References: <20240109174318.MCIB6yhn@steffen%sdaoden.eu> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1841664.CR9iXFMSmR"; micalg="pgp-sha384"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" --nextPart1841664.CR9iXFMSmR Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; protected-headers="v1" From: Olivier Certner To: Warner Losh Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: noatime on ufs2 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:01:48 +0100 Message-ID: <1749331.ETpRK2a2Mi@ravel> MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi Warner, > It has also been used for almost as long to see if log files have changed > if you set your MAIL variable to that. So not just for email... This seems to be an example in point of a "niche" scenario, both in terms of spread of usage (even then) and the fact that it's easy to get the functionality by other means. Again, I'm not opposing anyone from working on "relatime" if they personally have a strong need and motivation. I'm not even asking for removing the "atime" functionality, which can have its uses. What I'm saying is that, based on others' input so far, my own (long, even if not as long as yours) experience and some late reflection, is that "noatime" should be the default (everywhere, all mounts and all FSes), and that working on "relatime" won't make any real difference for most users (IOW, I think that developing "relatime" is a bad idea *in general*). And I think this is a sufficiently reasonable conclusion that anyone with the same inputs would conclude the same. So, if it's not the case, I would be interested in knowing why, ideally. Regards. -- Olivier Certner --nextPart1841664.CR9iXFMSmR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. 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