From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 6 12:32:00 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EB6A16A4CE; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:32:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [207.200.4.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D3E943D55; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 12:31:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id DC23B146FB; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:31:58 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:31:58 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Linimon X-X-Sender: linimon@pancho To: paul@iconoplex.co.uk Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Where is FreeBSD going? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 20:32:00 -0000 > The only thing any of the committers cares about is what they think. > Got a problem? Submit a patch. Don't like the way things are done? > Submit a patch. Don't like how such-and-such a util works? Submit a > patch. Please suggest an alternative, given that almost all the labor is volunteer labor. There are hundreds of PRs still to be processed that do have patches -- in fact, on most days the backlog is getting bigger, not smaller. IMHO it's reasonable to prioritize concrete suggestions over wish-list items. What else should we be doing? > Except, when Matt Dillon did submit, he was told to back out > his changes This had more to do with personalities than technology. Other people have had patches rejected, backouts requested, and in some cases, backouts forced upon them. Many of those people are still with the project. In a cooperative anarchy, things are never going to be perfect; further, I think it's unfair to generalize this one situation to saying "this or that contribution doesn't count". This was the culminating incident of a long-standing clash between strong personalities. It's too bad that it worked out the way it did, but I think other than that it's not useful to make generalizations from this one controversy. > In short, you can put all the effort you want in, but -core > and many with a commit bit will resent you for it, because > you're just a user. What you may be interpreting as resentment may actually just be frustration at being once again in the middle of being told "things are broken" without concrete suggestions about how it can be fixed. Please come up with some kind of definite proposal that you think would alleviate your, and others', concerns; and post it and let us discuss it. Keep in mind that as you do so it's a volunteer project, and you have to address the interests of the current volunteers too. Perhaps you can suggest a way to bring more volunteers in without losing any of the existing ones. I certainly don't have any answers to these kinds of questions; let me take a look at yours. mcl