From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 3 17:38:42 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FE2E1065675; Sun, 3 Aug 2008 17:38:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [209.31.154.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5329D8FC12; Sun, 3 Aug 2008 17:38:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [209.31.154.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0900E46B45; Sun, 3 Aug 2008 13:38:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 18:38:40 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20080803.113253.-532680110.imp@bsdimp.com> Message-ID: References: <64491.1217595198@critter.freebsd.dk> <20080801132624.GG1359@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> <20080801134435.GQ99951@hoeg.nl> <20080803.113253.-532680110.imp@bsdimp.com> User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (BSF 962 2008-03-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: arch@freebsd.org, ed@80386.nl, phk@phk.freebsd.dk, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, peterjeremy@optushome.com.au Subject: Re: Reminder: non-mpsafetty drivers to be *dis*connected on Sunday X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 17:38:42 -0000 On Sun, 3 Aug 2008, M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message: <20080801134435.GQ99951@hoeg.nl> > Ed Schouten writes: : Maybe I'm replying to too > many messages at the same time, but as John : said, it's a lot easier making > the remaining drivers work after the code : has been integrated. It's not > like we're permanently carving things into : stone - we've almost got a full > year to get it all working again. > > We've heard this promise before. It rarely has resulted in the promised > work. I don't think this is the right way forward. I have to admit that I was quite pleasantly surprised that so many network drivers became MPSAFE in the last couple of months, and USB will nicely round that out. It may help if Ed could take whatever notes he sent Peter about sio and drop them on the Wiki as the beginning of a howto on adapting drivers to the new tty layer. One thing I would really like to see is us taking this as an opportunity to get more people interested in maintaining the tty drivers we have -- now is a really good opportunity for people do adopt drivers and update them. I fall down a bit more on the Warner side here also: I think posting the docs in advance of removing the drivers, and having a couple of weeks gap between those events, is a much more productive way to achieve the goal of updated drivers. It also means that we don't have timeline gaps when serial drivers for devices are broken: when people are playing the binary search game to find some other problem, the last thing they want is to hit dates where their system consoles don't work. Robert N M Watson Computer Laboratory University of Cambridge