From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 8 17:16: 1 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4493156D0 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:15:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04926; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:13:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Brett Glass Cc: Phil Regnauld , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Market share and platform support In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 08 Sep 1999 10:24:56 MDT." <4.2.0.58.19990908100529.05259560@localhost> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 17:13:56 -0700 Message-ID: <4922.936836036@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > O'Reilly has turned down several book proposals on BSD UNIX -- from me and > from other authors -- saying that Linux has so much more market share that it Perhaps they just didn't like you. They asked me to do a book and I turned them down due to too many committments elsewhere. They've also published 2 FreeBSD books in Japanese - I saw them the last time I was in Tokyo. > So, you see, relative market share DOES matter. FreeBSD must get up there on > the charts, or the ports will not come. And, as mentioned in another thread We are getting up on the charts and the ports are coming. I've counted at least 3 new products in the last 2 months - we have the XNI network monitoring software (which will be demo'd at the upcoming BAFUG meeting), we have the Polyserve load balancing package (adding FreeBSD to its Solaris and Linux product line before NT even) and we have C-Forge (see recent press). The "buy-in" I'm also getting at trade-shows and other vendor-populated events more recently is also very heartening. Just 3 years ago, the responses I got to inquiries ranged from "what's FreeBSD?" to "we already support Linux" ("um, we're not a linux") and many vendors at COMDEX were just basically clueless about our very existence. Now, many trade-shows and press articles later, I'm getting outright statements of "I'm *really glad* you came to talk to us, let me introduce you to our CTO!" and "FreeBSD? Yes, we have a port for that already in progress. Let me give you my card" from some of those very same vendors. That may not seem on-par with the "My god, you're Linus Torvalds! Can I touch your sleeve?" sorts of receptions you'd probably insist upon before acknowledging any tangible signs of progress, but it's definitely progress in my book. In any case, we've expended many bytes in this mailing list in discussing the topic and frankly it's starting to become only tiring, not enlightening or motivating. Discussions which serve only to tire one out are not useful discussions in my book and nothing you're ever going to say will change my mind on THAT particular point, so you might as well save your fingers too. Rather than continue discuss the "memes of advocacy" and other mere conceptualizations of progress in all the areas you say we lack it, it's my personal choice to keep "feeding the PR machine" by visiting trade shows, speaking before audiences and press weasels of various shapes and colors, and doing the whole road tour thing in general since that seems like the most tangible way to make progress. Anyone else who's interested in doing rather than just talking about doing is also more than welcome to join me at such events, just as many people currently do. Such folks are a major help in tackling press weasels, pressuring vendors for support and otherwise doing *exactly* what the many legions of Linux folks do in whipping up support for their OS of choice and I really appreciate their participation. All this talk of dominant memes and subverting the current paradigm is mere fiddle-faddle when it comes right down to it becuase it's the front-liners who do the work and the front liners who I respect. If I start seeing Brett Glass more on the front lines and not just working for unspecified "clients" on not-very-visible advocacy efforts then, and only then, will I start to trust that he can walk the walk in addition to talking the talk and we can perhaps even begin to have constructive discussions here and investigate potential areas of cooperation. That day is still yet to arrive, however, and further un-constructive discussions during the interval are therefore just a waste of time and energy. I'll waste no more of either until Brett changes his current classification on the FreeBSD user taxonomy chart. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message