From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Jan 10 06:54:02 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D66C6E6CE75 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 06:54:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-wm0-x22d.google.com (mail-wm0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 672EE1FF3 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 06:54:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-wm0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id b141so24734556wme.1 for ; Tue, 09 Jan 2018 22:54:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=DZ8mtZqeS/ZYuNzFRcyD/WmPfA8zlYRSo+uD0X4ZxJg=; b=go81duZp+hBha0Qmub+Qq/Cw1Rm5YCsvFdCt2pA6llk+1MbAqKPZictU4nHREOP0DK FVhJRN6s9QYZMXerpfHyi7OQzEWmesDHFSiyNF1K8rMfha9BFPFzjz1mEPFdO4q7iGX4 RzrUFBO1yVsKbxqZ5QioEyekKhAcIj2lWyVE1Bc67zfImYpJY0JUBBGhnNmE2z0ecBL/ m/Lv6KamLkByJTERZWXO7HX75QG6MT7t1Z5kfWcJG2lk+cvJotm8b72XPZ+bD1/tspAw LyMJeudF6hqCEw7IJWucmuQKLEiAOuW3MsVKkOWqHOlq+POvvjTDuS8Vh9syxWp31pLc dKMQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DZ8mtZqeS/ZYuNzFRcyD/WmPfA8zlYRSo+uD0X4ZxJg=; b=nZzqO8RuF1Igp5NMlXjfGyGN7vMQ0qWtb90iK/6nxJUp4tmXEvSn0MWPfyNYPQPgBM yXPcb9P2n7WOVqrLuaPabq3TJ9CA2HpLrEmH9Emmjrd4E9nuFbPqJKxYKua10Uiw4L/P U3YS0lKJ+eOh7ihnCKxUG8x6pb+DLHyAWQbhxlZ64o9piFh+Z1dRQIntcIi9ayV0VYq4 J6emCetSGQAJO10qYW+JSSx3GXulx6UKnvVTQkaeq7SHuz02IK3b0JXcWlkUckKiFqe2 SAtVgQWjN4tIo8F8rR+U3v8Lhyty6dyp0TIS0mWgAaEvSizy0+6QhX6fTy4wJDTryKMI E4hw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytdJfHyWSF5RUAMRu0tgRnc58t9cPD2rr6RIBTqOhNsQ9+4j8o5G UZf+8/yt4+VDXbkxC5EldK5rl1tkNF2PGX+QmFgNlg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBovJzfq/JTRV7ogejMtmtrpB0Otd5yvB1jiMFmjnMUGWjFnyjiebW2NZcNkUts2MDOXnrqTLiJL0bzWbJgYyY7U= X-Received: by 10.80.151.22 with SMTP id c22mr326724edb.225.1515567240639; Tue, 09 Jan 2018 22:54:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by 10.80.195.88 with HTTP; Tue, 9 Jan 2018 22:53:59 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [2603:300b:6:5100:a84a:1e5c:a3af:9943] Received: by 10.80.195.88 with HTTP; Tue, 9 Jan 2018 22:53:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201801100624.w0A6OikT079235@mail.karels.net> References: <201801100624.w0A6OikT079235@mail.karels.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 23:53:59 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: xDNvo28-BhCaEonJKzU8zEPW9B4 Message-ID: Subject: Re: To be retired soon... To: Mike Karels Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 06:54:02 -0000 On Jan 9, 2018 11:24 PM, "Mike Karels" wrote: > About 18 months ago, there was a thread that talked about retiring older > storage devices and some ISA devices that have outlived their usefulness. > Here's the list that John Baldwin posted. > - Older storage adapters: > - aha (ISA) > - adv (ISA / PCI) > - adw (PCI)? > - bt (ISA / PCI) > - aic (ISA / PCCard) > - dpt (ISA / PCI) > - ncv (PCCard / PCI) > - nsp (PCCard) > - stg (ISA / PCCard / PCI) > - mse(4) (ISA-only non-PS-2, non-serial mouse) > - joy(4) (ISA-only, was on various Sound Cards, etc., but I haven't seen > a "game port" on a modern box in a long while) > I plan on marking these drivers with a new API ( > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D13818) in the coming days saying they will be > removed in 12.x (meaning not in 12.0 or later). Man pages will be updated > as well. I then plan to MFC all this code to 11 shortly after. Current > users will start to receive warnings. I get that we should have done this > sooner given our loosely observed deprecation practices in the past, but > we're doing it now (which beats how we've done this in the past, which is > why I'm adding the gone_in() to allow things we plan on retiring in 13 > before 12-stable is branched). In about a month (sometime after Feb 15th), > I plan on removing these from FreeBSD, absent any actual users reporting > that recent FreeBSD 12 systems work. There are a number of special cases in > CAM that be removed once these are gone, as well as code that's only used > by these drivers. > I've spoken to Scott Long about these drivers, and he's 100% on-board with > retiring them. As far as he knows, the only parallel SCSI driver that works > is mpt with LSI 2x320 cards, so these cards are (a) too slow to even be > remotely relevant (b) have all kinds of problems that haven't been resolved > in 5-ish years of reports of malfunction. mse/joy are also at least 15 > years past their even marginal relevance. > Comments? > Warner Agreed. But for the future, note that mpt is used in VMware ESXi emulation when FreeBSD/amd64 is selected (I think also for i386). VMware tends to emulate rather old hardware. We should retain drivers commonly used in virtual environments too. Agreed. mpt is not in danger. Nothing on this list goes that description. Warner