From owner-freebsd-security Sun Nov 21 15:24:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from sand2.sentex.ca (sand2.sentex.ca [209.167.248.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 356D414D30; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 15:24:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from gravel (ospf-mdt.sentex.net [205.211.164.81]) by sand2.sentex.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA03311; Sun, 21 Nov 1999 18:24:34 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Message-Id: <4.1.19991121180544.04252f00@granite.sentex.ca> X-Sender: mdtancsa@granite.sentex.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 18:25:38 -0500 To: Eivind Eklund , Nate Williams From: Mike Tancsa Subject: Re: Disabling FTP (was Re: Why not sandbox BIND?) Cc: security@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19991122000209.J602@bitbox.follo.net> References: <199911201808.LAA10767@mt.sri.com> <19991112173306.D76708@florence.pavilion.net> <19991112212912.Z57266@rucus.ru.ac.za> <199911121946.LAA24616@apollo.backplane.com> <199911122114.OAA20606@mt.sri.com> <19991113012855.A62879@fasterix.frmug.org> <199911130031.RAA21117@mt.sri.com> <19991120190417.I602@bitbox.follo.net> <199911201808.LAA10767@mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 06:02 PM 11/21/99 , Eivind Eklund wrote: >Most people do NOT need need network services running when they set up >a new box. A lot of people get screwed by having extra services they >do not need. > >Most users sit on the console of the box they are installing while >doing initial setup, and most of those of them that feel they need >access to the box from the network install ssh as their first thing to >do in a shell on the box. I think a lot of time could be spent trying best effort to protect end users from themselves (I am not thinking about ISPs here), and users will eventually either through carelessness or accident install something, or misconfigure something that will allow their system to be remotely compromised. But, even if you do disable potentially dangerous services, there is nothing to prevent the user from fumbling around and re-enabling it, there by subverting the original intent to protect them. Perhaps another strategy is just documentation. Add another section into the security man pages, or even put a reminder in big letters in the default MOTD reminding new users to understand the implications of installing certain services on their boxes. Especially these days when the majority of systems will be on some sort of potentially hostile network. The security(7) man page is an excellent guide for somewhat experienced users. However, for the class of user this thread seems to be talking about, I think its generally over their heads no ? Would the participants of this thread see merit in someone undertaking (e.g. me) writing a security document for a more novice user ? Something a little more extensive that http://www.freebsd.org/security/#tat and something a little more novice that security(7), especially with reference to clear text passwords. I think if the first time user is told right from the outset to think about security at the sysinstall page, and then reminded via the default MOTD, they might stand a better chance to be security conscious so that when they do use services like ftp and ftpd, they understand the implications. ---Mike ********************************************************************** Mike Tancsa, Network Admin * mike@sentex.net Sentex Communications Corp, * http://www.sentex.net/mike Cambridge, Ontario * 519 651 3400 Canada * To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-security" in the body of the message