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[173.19.125.130]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t140sm2721880ywe.28.2020.01.30.09.29.34 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 30 Jan 2020 09:29:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 11:29:32 -0600 From: Justin Hibbits To: Bob Bishop Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , freebsd-arm , Emmanuel Vadot , Robert Clausecker , Paul Mather , freebsd-arch Subject: Re: arm64 as Tier 1 for FreeBSD 13 Message-ID: <20200130112932.46ccb9fe@titan.knownspace> In-Reply-To: References: <17938.1575444597@critter.freebsd.dk> <20191204092402.GA82492@fuz.su> <78425.1580332298@critter.freebsd.dk> <20200129222907.3ccaf4c23fe8509e3f9cdfe4@bidouilliste.net> <84926.1580333803@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.4 (GTK+ 2.24.32; powerpc64-portbld-freebsd13.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 487nR52rQYz4P72 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=ayb3sddV; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of chmeeedalf@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::c42 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=chmeeedalf@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.00 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[130.125.19.173.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (2.11), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.03), asn: 15169(-1.78), country: US(-0.05)]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2.4.c.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 07:30:33 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 17:29:38 -0000 On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 13:07:37 +0000 Bob Bishop wrote: > Hi, > > > On 29 Jan 2020, at 21:36, Poul-Henning Kamp > > wrote: > > > > -------- > > In message > > <20200129222907.3ccaf4c23fe8509e3f9cdfe4@bidouilliste.net>, > > Emmanuel Vadot writes: > >>> RPi's are a LOT easier to get hold of for hackers and in > >>> particular for educators. > >> > >> In what way ? > >> Real answer only. > > > > 1. Schools can get them through their usual suppliers of educational > > material, with a pretty decent discount, and with educational > > courses and materials, pretty much ready to go. > > > > 2. Most "maker-space" atuned electronics pushers carry them. > > > > 3. Big electronics pushers carry them. > > > > In re 1-3: No customs processing of shipment involved. > > > > 4. Cost, including shipping is below "trivial" threshold in most > > organizations. > > RPi zero in particular is cheap enough to treat as a component. This is probably the most compelling argument on this thread for finding someone with somewhat deep pockets to get involved. Broadcom won't listen to educators, hackers, or hobbyists, they'll only listen to large piles of money. Someone (company) needs to be in a position to tell Broadcom "Hey, we want to use the RPi Zero (or the SoC in it) in our product, running FreeBSD. Help us out." Otherwise, they ignore us at no peril to them. Saying "We ignore it at our peril" makes great rhetoric, but it's not at all actionable. Without usable documentation, there's no way anyone would do the work needed. > > > -- > > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > > phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by > > incompetence. > > -- > Bob Bishop > rb@gid.co.uk - Justin