From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Mar 16 11:37:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from threespace.com (server44.aitcom.net [208.234.0.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39A2B37B420 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:37:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from vwinxp.threespace.com (ip68-11-176-217.br.no.cox.net [68.11.176.217]) by threespace.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA27898 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:41:39 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20020316131434.01b22178@threespace.com> X-Sender: tech@threespace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:35:45 -0600 To: FreeBSD Chat From: Chip Morton Subject: Re: The Great GUI Debate (was Re: Free BSD) In-Reply-To: <15507.36992.94921.650074@guru.mired.org> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020316112644.01b11558@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20020316100234.01b21638@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20020315181331.01b26160@threespace.com> <20020314204235.L152-100000@pogo.caustic.org> <15505.28725.937368.158235@guru.mired.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20020315190230.01b2a4f8@threespace.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20020316112644.01b11558@threespace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 12:35 PM 3/16/2002, Mike Meyer wrote: >In <4.3.2.7.2.20020316112644.01b11558@threespace.com>, Chip Morton > typed: > > Look, if you or Lambert or Raskin or anybody else think that you have a > > better idea, then have at it. If you build a mousetrap that is truly > > better than the one we use now, then I'm sure the world will quickly > beat a > > path to your doorstep. > >Mine's plpwm. It's part of the plwm port. And I can respect that you decided to take things into your own hands and make improvements to your own workstation. But you haven't gone so far as to claim, "I'm right, and you're all wrong and stupid for using your inferior window managers." I'll probably check out plpwm one of these days, but if I decide to stick with KDE, I would hope that you wouldn't be calling me a moron who had relegated himself to sub-optimal productivity for the rest of his life. >The people I know who were serious about real-time recording moved to >either DAT or mini-disks a long time ago. Then again, most of them >have since give those up, and do real-time capture to disk, edit and >mix on the computer, then burn the CD. I use MDs for my real-time recording, but I still usually have to move the results to CD if I want to share the results with anybody or be able to truly play it anywhere. These extra steps don't improve the product, they just allow much wider distribution. If the music industry hadn't decided to fight recordable digital formats (as they continue to do even with widely available CD-R technology), that might not be necessary. >Why are you assuming that you'd hate Raskin - or my - way of doing >things? Personally, I hate the MS/Apple GUI way of doing things. I'm not saying that I would hate it. What I hate is his peering down his nose at the rest of the computing world and telling us what morons we are for continuing to use these obviously inferior GUIs. In my view, it's a matter of personal preference and opinion, not an issue of right or wrong. And if efficiency isn't your holy grail, Raskin's ideas quickly lose clout. >In this case, we just have to agree to disagree. I remember to many >people being *very* happy when the Amiga lost it's "halloween" color >scheme as the default. I was happy too, but not because I became any more efficient. I was happy because the Halloween scheme was kinda ugly. :-) >Personally, I don't care if you want to lug 3d-bricks across your >girlfriends carcass while you work. I believe you should be allowed to >do that. I think I should be allowed to do it too, but until she's fully on board with the idea I'm just going to have to stick to more basic stuff. ;-) >In fact, one of the things that sucks about the common >interfaces is that all they let you change are the trivial things like >the looks, but not any of the important things that would actually >make them more efficient, not just glitzier. I agree with you about being able to do significant configurations rather than simple cosmetic ones. But again, if Raskin believes that a standard interface is essential for maintaining productivity levels across different computers used for similar tasks, then it stands to reason that giving you an interface that allowed you to move your widgets wherever you please would run counter to that goal. You can't have it both ways. Now I do agree that for an organization it is probably beneficial to enforce some of these standards. These computers aren't the property of the individuals; they belong to the organization. But some of us actually use our computers because we *enjoy* it, not because we have any particularly pressing task to accomplish. And I don't think my opinion is any less significant because I like my windows rendered in 24-bit color. > > Then he should be happy and stay off happy users' screens. > >He can't keep you from reading his articles on the web. If you don't >like them, don't read them. How can you know whether you like or dislike something before you read it? << Chip Morton >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message