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[209.85.166.48]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j18sm3113019ioo.14.2019.08.25.16.51.04 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 25 Aug 2019 16:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-f48.google.com with SMTP id j4so24634291iog.11; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 16:51:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a02:6d24:: with SMTP id m36mr1746226jac.87.1566777064136; Sun, 25 Aug 2019 16:51:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201908231522.x7NFMLuJ068037@repo.freebsd.org> <20190826.042056.1329861772202588895.hrs@allbsd.org> <20190826.050922.1810654532466043358.hrs@allbsd.org> In-Reply-To: Reply-To: cem@freebsd.org From: Conrad Meyer Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 16:50:53 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: svn commit: r351423 - in head: . sbin/ping6 sbin/ping6/tests To: alan somers Cc: Hiroki Sato , src-committers , svn-src-all , svn-src-head Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 46GsNB6MnLz4d6L X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of csecem@gmail.com designates 209.85.166.66 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=csecem@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.23 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[cem@freebsd.org]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.983,0]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[cem@freebsd.org,csecem@gmail.com]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[cem@freebsd.org,csecem@gmail.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[66.166.85.209.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-1.25)[ip: (-0.53), ipnet: 209.85.128.0/17(-3.35), asn: 15169(-2.33), country: US(-0.05)]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 23:51:08 -0000 Hi Alan, Hiroki, It would be pretty easy to install a `ping6` link to the `ping(8)` binary with different option parsing (conditional on argv[0]). That removes most of the issues of code and space duplication, I think? And the goal would be for the 'ping6' name to retain option compatibility with historical ping6. It's not an uncommon pattern; for example, 'id', 'groups', and 'whoami' are all a single binary with multiple linked names. Another example is Clang, which provides 'cc', 'c++', 'clang', 'clang-cpp', 'clang++' and 'cpp' links to the same inode =E2=80=94 and those have very different behavior depending on argv[0]. It's less work than forcing the ping6 compatibility crowd to create a port and doesn't hurt ping(8) much, AFAICT. Is it an acceptable middle ground? Best, Conrad On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 1:26 PM alan somers wrote: > > On Sun, Aug 25, 2019, 2:11 PM Hiroki Sato wrote: >> >> Alan Somers wrote >> in : >> >> as> On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 1:22 PM Hiroki Sato wrote: >> as> > >> as> > Hi, >> as> > >> as> > Alan Somers wrote >> as> > in <201908231522.x7NFMLuJ068037@repo.freebsd.org>: >> as> > >> as> > as> Author: asomers >> as> > as> Date: Fri Aug 23 15:22:20 2019 >> as> > as> New Revision: 351423 >> as> > as> URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/351423 >> as> > as> >> as> > as> Log: >> as> > as> ping6: Rename options for better consistency with ping >> as> > as> >> as> > as> Now equivalent options have the same flags, and nonequivalen= t options have >> as> > as> different flags. This is a prelude to merging the two comma= nds. >> as> > as> >> as> > as> Submitted by: J=C3=A1n Su=C4=8Dan >> as> > as> MFC: Never >> as> > as> Sponsored by: Google LLC (Google Summer of Code 2019) >> as> > as> Differential Revision: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D21345 >> as> > >> as> > I have an objection on renaming the existing option flags in ping= 6(8) >> as> > for compatibility with ping(8). >> as> > >> as> > Is it sufficient to add INET6 support to ping(8) with consistent >> as> > flags and keep CLI of ping6(8) backward compatible? People have = used >> as> > ping6(8) for >15 years, so it is too late to rename the flags. I= do >> as> > not think the renaming is useful if "ping -6 localhost" or "ping = ::1" >> as> > works. >> as> > >> as> > -- Hiroki >> as> >> as> If ping works with inet6, then why would we want to keep a separate >> as> tool around? If it's just for the sake of people who don't want to = or >> as> can't update scripts, would a version in ports suffice? >> >> Because removing (or renaming) it causes a POLA violation. Do we >> really have a strong, unavoidable reason to force people to rewrite >> their script now? This is still a fairly essential and actively used >> tool, not like rcp or rlogin. Although deprecating ping6(8) and >> removing it from the base system in the future release at some point >> may work, changing the existing interface will simply confuse people >> who have used IPv6 for a long time. >> >> In my understanding, the purpose to integrate ping(8) and ping6(8) >> into a single utility is to provide a consistent CLI and reduce >> duplicate code, not to break compatibility. >> >> -- Hiroki > > > Those goals are incompatible. We can't provide a consistent CLI without b= reaking compatibility because ping and ping6 have conflicting options. And= we can't keep ping6 around while also removing duplicate code because that= would be, well, duplicate code. > > When would be a better time than a major version bump to make a change li= ke this? > > The lack of a ping6 command in freebsd 13 should serve as a pretty obviou= s reminder that scripts will need updating. I think that putting a version= of ping6 in ports should be a sufficient crutch for those who need it, don= 't you?