From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 26 04:04:25 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0B20106564A for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 04:04:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D44D8FC08 for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 04:04:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id p6Q445gQ010336; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 22:04:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@samsco.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Scott Long In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 22:04:05 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20110724162937.33865zm0kn4ztdwk@econet.encontacto.net> <4E2C8FBE.7040003@freebsd.org> <4E2CA4A7.7020100@fuzzwad.org> <4E2D125F.6040909@cran.org.uk> To: Freddie Cash X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-50.0 required=3.8 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.0 (2010-01-18) on pooker.samsco.org Cc: Bruce Cran , freebsd-current , Ron McDowell , Nathan Whitehorn , eculp Subject: Re: Trying to install current from a memory stick and then a DVD and got a new and strange installer. X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 04:04:26 -0000 On Jul 25, 2011, at 11:36 AM, Freddie Cash wrote: > On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:51 PM, Bruce Cran = wrote: >=20 >> On 25/07/2011 06:01, Freddie Cash wrote: >>=20 >>> Thank goodness. The worst thing about sysinstall was that it tried = to be a >>> Swiss Army knife doing everything, yet not doing any one thing well. = It made >>> a royal mess of rc.conf if you tried to use it to configure a = system. >>> Usually the first time someone mentions they use it for post-install >>> configuration, the recommendation is to stop doing that! An os = installer >>> should do just that: install the os and nothing else. >>>=20 >>=20 >> I tend to disagree with this. For people unfamiliar with FreeBSD = using it >> as a systems administration tool can be really useful, at least until = they >> understand where all the various configuration files are and how they = work. >> Having recently switched to opensuse from Ubuntu I know I find the = YaST >> tool incredibly useful, and probably wouldn't have continued using = SuSE if >> it hadn't been there. Its installer mode is one of the better = installers >> I've come across, and lets you fine-tune the configuration. >>=20 >=20 > The difference is that YaST was designed from the get-go to be both a = system > management tool and a software installation tool and a system = installation > tool. Sysinstall was not, and sysinstall used as a post-install = management > tool the past couple of years has caused more issues for newbies than = it's > "solved". Um, no. Though sysinstall started life as a stop-gap until the "real" = installer was written (which never happened), it quickly switched gears = and strived to be both an installer and a configuration tool. It was = designed to do both, and there are volumes of emails from the last... = what... 15-18 years?... that will attest to this. The design flaw of = sysinstall was that it didn't follow the model-view-controller design = pattern, so over time it became harder and harder to maintain it, and it = essentially rotted as the system evolved around it, despite many valiant = efforts by many tireless developers. YaST did a much better job of = following the MVC pattern, and it shows 10 years later. Scott