From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jul 6 11:23:49 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EA21DAAFD4 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2017 11:23:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from baho-utot@columbus.rr.com) Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.225]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "cdptpa-oedge", Issuer "cdptpa-oedge" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6983E67050 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2017 11:23:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from baho-utot@columbus.rr.com) Received: from [65.186.81.207] ([65.186.81.207:51576] helo=raspberrypi.bildanet.com) by cdptpa-omsmta01 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.9.48312 r(Core:3.6.9.0)) with ESMTP id 9C/61-10880-18D1E595; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 11:22:41 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.143] (helo=desktop.example.com) by raspberrypi.bildanet.com with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1dT4rp-0001qo-EF for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 06 Jul 2017 11:22:41 +0000 Subject: Re: FreeBSD did it again (still) To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <27b3c757-1f00-a033-03f6-303a82ab65f2@columbus.rr.com> <3ce31ee2-5e35-d31c-71ca-dc95ece2dd61@intersonic.se> <020431a6-1a7d-d80e-0725-585c21f3ef27@columbus.rr.com> <563b14d5-ebfb-62b6-28ac-3ebbd663d067@intersonic.se> <8c1bb853-5eb0-4fae-ee26-5ff4684c2b3a@saunalahti.fi> From: Baho Utot Message-ID: <978da1b4-646e-94cb-f100-cdde6172b4db@columbus.rr.com> Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2017 07:22:41 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8c1bb853-5eb0-4fae-ee26-5ff4684c2b3a@saunalahti.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RR-Connecting-IP: 107.14.168.6:25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 11:23:49 -0000 On 07/06/17 02:07, Heikki Lindholm wrote: > On 06.07.2017 00:39, Baho Utot wrote: >> On 7/5/2017 5:30 PM, Per olof Ljungmark wrote: >>> On 2017-07-06 03:21, Baho Utot wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On 7/5/2017 4:31 PM, Per olof Ljungmark wrote: >>>>> On 2017-07-06 01:54, Baho Utot wrote: >>>>>> Up graded an old laptop from 10.1 to 11.0-p10. I then checked out >>>>>> the latest quarterly ports. I figured that FreeBSD would barf and >>>>>> I was not disappointed. Built the ports with synth and then I >>>>>> installed them, xorg promptly shit itself. >>>>>> >>>>>> So I typed pkg autoremove just for shits and giggles. Before the >>>>>> upgrade pkg autoremove did nothing ( nothing to remove ) the >>>>>> latest pkg wanted to remove all of Xorg and some other things but >>>>>> not remove lumina. Figure that one out. >>>>>> >>>>>> Working on figuring this out. >>>>>> >>>>>> Can you tell me why FreeBSD doesn't need versioned ports again? I >>>>>> am just looking for something that works, I don't need the last >>>>>> version of xyz that just came off the press. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thinking I may need to leave FreeBSD and find something that is >>>>>> stable/works. An upgrade from a recent version should not requir >>>>>> days to weeks to get it to work. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Not sure what you are aiming at here but - just felt I had to comment. >>>>> You are probably right that there must be cohersion between >>>>> packages and system when using prebuilt binaries. >>>>> >>>>> My way of doing it is the opposite, everything is compiled from >>>>> source, the classic *nix way. This way, FreeBSD has never let me down. >>>>> >>>>> I think the best approach if you have an older system where it >>>>> takes ages to compile, you really need to follow a strict path >>>>> using packages. On a more recent system, nothing beats source builds. >>>>> >>>>> There has been a lot of discussion over this matter recently, >>>>> please understand that this is not RedHat or Ubuntu, the resources >>>>> needed to keep up with building binaries are limited in comparison. >>>>> If you need prebuilt packages, please just contribute to the work. >>>>> >>>>> Just my SEK 0.2 >>>>> >>>>> //per >>>> >>>> I built the ports from svn source using synth I did not use prebuilt >>>> binaries. I did do it the classic *nix way. >>> >>> That was odd. But if you provide more detailed info I'm sure there is >>> help on the list. >>> >>> I only use portmaster due to its ease of use, have no experience from >>> synth. >>> >>> //per >> >> What is ODD is that I have not received my original post that started >> this thread, from the mailing list. It has not come thru the FreeBSD >> mailing list. I wanted to have a look at the headers. I checked the >> timestamps on my client box was/is correct ( running ntp ) my mail >> server is correct ( running ntp ). >> >> I am investigating why the upgrade to the laptop has failed. This >> happens every time I upgrade if the upgrade cycle is 6 months to a >> year. I simply don't have the time to go thru this every time I do an >> upgrade. It should just work ( I know some edge case may not that is >> not what I am talking about ). One should be able to update a machine >> ( desktop ) and it should still function. If I am crashing a package >> or two that is fine, the whole desktop should not go from usable to >> crashing/puking/barfing. > > I think problems are to expected from a rolling style of distro. I've > been using FreeBSD as my main desktop for half a year now and every > ports upgrade has required some tweaking. I've submitted patches and > they have usually been applied quickly and stuff has got fixed. On the > flip side you get the ability to configure the ports (which I've found > so great in FreeBSD ports that it's hard to go back to anything else) > and not having to do major re-installs of the whole system every half a > year to stay current (ubuntu). Should you not be confindent in that the base system builds followed by Xorg and a desktop manager? > > Compared to, say, gentoo, FreeBSD ports has still been much less > trouble. On gentoo, in addition to generic ports breakage, you're also > fighting the ports/package manager that constantly wants you to accept > packages, one by one, from testing/unstable side or add accepted > architectures to packages, just make stuff buidld/install at all. > > One thing I'd like to see in a ports system (if not already there) is > some kind of install journal and tools using it that would allow, for > instance, to do a whole reinstall from scratch as in "do what I did to > build this system, but use the new versions" and it would install ports > with the same options in exactly the same order (if allowed by new > dependencies), or allow removing cruft introduced by some package that > I've deleted that no other packages are using (pkg autoremove is too > broad). I am doing what you are asking for by using some shell scripts and synth. The problems comes from after getting it to work when you bring the script and synth out 6 months later it will not build a system that runs, only crashes and then you get to fix it.. Well I just don't have time for that type of cycle any more. If synth plus some scripts worked 8 times out of 10 I would be good with that but it fails every time. I can not then build reproducable systems. The two problems I have is that if I don't save the svn repos for base and ports somewhere I have nothng to start from to build a system.