Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 16:37:30 -0800 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@freefall.cdrom.com> To: Nate Williams <nate@trout.sri.mt.net> Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@ref.tfs.com>, wollman@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu, current@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: TRUE and FALSE Message-ID: <12205.793499850@freefall.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 22 Feb 95 16:45:52 MST." <199502222345.QAA15987@trout.sri.MT.net>
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> At what gain are we doing this? I believe it's a noble gain to have the
> source tree compile w/out reference to /usr/include, but what does it
> gain us? The only thing I can see where it's a big deal is building a
Oh geeze! I can't believe we need to explain *that*!
Look, right now we have an intolerable situation where we have this
mutant world target from hell that requires updating each and every
time some weird bogon in the tree requires that it be updated in a
specific sequence before anything else will work. It's already
tripled in size since we first created it and it's not at all
inconceivable that (if things keep going this way) the world target
will be 3 pages long by the time 2.2 comes out! That or we'll finally
run into a case we can't solve with one pass and we'll end up with
multiple sub-makes from the darkest reaches of Hades!
That and the simple fact that depending on includes and libraries
from outside of /usr/src is incredibly *error prone*. If you and
Garrett feel so strongly about this, then I have a suggestion:
YOU BE THE RELEASE ENGINEERS FOR 2.1!
Otherwise, and with all due respect, kindly put a plug in it.. It is
incredibly irksome to be one of the ones bitten by this and then be
corrected by the two people here who have NEVER done a release and
have always run rapidly in the other direction every time the hat was
passed around for a volunteer to actually do this grueling task! Do
you know that the 950210-SNAP release has a bogus ps and several other
binaries for which the fixes are in /usr/src? How did that happen,
you ask? Well, I made the release on time and time had slightly older
contents of /usr/lib. Since I was technically making and installing
into a sub-tree it didn't occur to me that the various utilities would
link themselves with the includes and libraries in /usr rather than in
${DESTDIR}/usr, and I got binaries that were out of sync with the
actual sources.
Now you can argue that I should have gone through the arduous process
of doing a make world first, or perhaps a make install then a chroot
then another make all and ... but I didn't have a full 24 hours to tie
up my machine with this at the time, so I took what looked like a
reasonably short cut and it bit my ass. This should NOT HAVE HAPPENED
and if we had a properly designed source tree it WOULD NOT HAVE.
Now Poul-Henning is proposing a final solution to this mess and you
guys, who have never done a release and have very little grasp of the
issues involved (and I won't be convinced otherwise until you guys
have actually DONE a release and have truly walked the steps), are
picking it to death on the basis of having to type TWO INCREDIBLY
SIMPLE COMMANDS for what is also an exceptional case - hacking on
kernel dependent sources that aren't in /usr/src.
Excuse me while I go scream into a pillow or something.
Jordan
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