From owner-freebsd-questions Fri Feb 9 21:42:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from grumpy.dyndns.org (user-24-214-56-129.knology.net [24.214.56.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACA9137B401 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 21:42:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumpy.dyndns.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f1A5g9N56642; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 23:42:10 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@grumpy.dyndns.org) Message-Id: <200102100542.f1A5g9N56642@grumpy.dyndns.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: DanSV@aol.com Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Linux vs FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message from DanSV@aol.com of "Fri, 09 Feb 2001 23:11:02 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 23:42:09 -0600 From: David Kelly Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This doesn't appear to be the usual troll as Dan does ask some real questions. DanSV@aol.com writes: > Howdy. > > I run Debian Linux. > The evil thing has crashed for the last time. > I was convinced that one program was not supposed to > be able to bring down an entire system, yet netscape > apparently could. > > Anyway, X also crashes. Lets qualify everything first by observing it *is* PC hardware, where "cheap" rules. FreeBSD is the greatest thing this side of MacOS X but if the hardware is broken then it too is going to crash. Considering most manufacturers consider "it works with Windows" to be the definition of not-broken doesn't mean its so. A pet peeve of mine is lack of ECC memory. I have seen enough memory errors detected by ECC hardware but missed by "memory checkers" to be a believer. Few PC's have ECC memory but many have capable hardware. [...] > My Questions: > > 1. Apt-get. Anything similiar in FreeBSD? > I loved being able to apt-get upgrade. The preferred method with FreeBSD is to use cvsup to bring your sources up to date. Then update using make. http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/synching.html > 2. ATI XPERT 2000. > Supported? Hardware Accel? Check with XFree86. FreeBSD uses the same sources as Linux. But some vendors are supplying binary only Linux drivers. Sometimes these can be made to run under FreeBSD too. > 3. Memory. Can one program ever crash the system? Its been known to happen. Netscape Communicator is known for its flakeyness and ability to lock up window managers. No telling how much of your problem was due to using the latest and greatest bleeding edge beta Gnome? I'm just guessing you were running Gnome? Or KDE? > 4. Ease of use: > > General? > > Setup? > > (Keep in mind I can program c++, and have manualyy configured much in linux, yet I am a full time student and can;t muck around too much) Then you won't miss not having a GUI for the installation. FreeBSD makes far fewer assumptions on setting up X than I've seen in Linux. So in general FreeBSD starts with X being less "full featured" than Linux. Then again, the Linux distributions have to have something to distinguish themselves from each other so they put a lot of effort into getting the user into the prettiest X environment as quickly as they can. > 5. How is the support for say, an acer cdrw (ATAPI, mmc compliant) 6x4x32?, f or a K6-III? FreeBSD doesn't do SCSI-emulation for ATAPI. We have a pretty interesting direct to ATAPI feature set, including burncd in the base system. My system is an Athlon. > 6. What is the stability of the system like in general? > compared to linux? Not many on this list could really say how FreeBSD stands vs the current Linux. OTOH a large number (myself included) are former Linux users, disillusioned, looked for something better and think we found it. > 7. Same as above but for speed? Of course FreeBSD is the fastest. :-) Seriously, from what I've seen of the FreeBSD core developers they don't sweat "speed for speed's sake". The emphasis is on doing it right, reliable, and something that can continue to provide a solid foundation for the future. If it needs to be slower to be safe, then it is. Such as the filesystem. UFS is usually very fast. It is a safe place for your data. But on installation expanding /usr/ports/ into place is taxing. Believe this is because creating directories is an "expensive" process with UFS, and /usr/ports is all directories and small files. Under load FreeBSD behaves better than Linux. I left Linux when my system crashed and trashed the filesystems three times in one week. Never looked back. Altho some friends and I are going to invite ourselves to a Linux UG meeting next week. :-) > 8. How do I install it? I have a T1 connection though my school. Download the two boot floppies and boot 'em. Or download the ISO image and use your Linux system one last time to make a FreeBSD CD. Better yet purchase the FreeBSD CDROM set. That's the only way to make sure BSDi can afford the electricity to keep this email list running. > 9. Can I run debian apps on it? Probably. Not sure why you would want to. But there is an optional so-called "Linux emulation" layer in FreeBSD where Linux apps are recognized in their native form an Linux syscalls are mapped to appropriate FreeBSD syscalls. Linux Netscape will run. As will Acrobat Reader, and WordPerfect. > 10. How fast are you at incorporating new technology, programs? Just because its "new" doesn't mean its better. Its hard to say about many things. Such as "removal of 2G file size limit" is new for Linux but was never an issue with FreeBSD. Couple of years ago SMP was the Big Hot Thing. Some said Linux had it and FreeBSD didn't. Now the smoke has cleared it has not proven to be that big of an issue. Linux's SMP turned out to be less than the hype. FreeBSD has been making some massive internal changes with SMP in mind. FreeBSD has had SMP for quite some time. But the point I'd like to make is that "newer" and "newest" are often sexy, "but what good is that if she can't cook?" > As compared to linux (both redhat speed, and debian speed)? Certainly slower. FreeBSD lets Linux debug "new stuff" such as gcc. FreeBSD took a year or so longer to move to ELF but when we did it was done so well many didn't know it happened if they had not been told. Apparently Netscape still doesn't know as the only FreeBSD native Netscape apps are still in a.out format. But still run. > 11. If When I take this comp home, and it is no longer hooked up in any way t o the internet, how could I install new stuff? Just as easy? (ie are there pa ckages?) A FreeBSD "package" is a pre-compiled FreeBSD "port". A FreeBSD port is a Makefile and supporting files capable of downloading, verifying, patching, compiling, installing, and removing, an application. The port may recurse and install other ports needed to build or run the port you requested. Installing Netscape will build XFree86 if its missing. Installing the Linux Netscape will install the Linux runtime stuff needed by other Linux apps. Over a 28.8k modem cvsup can do its thing with about one 20 to 30 minute session per week. > 12. How clean/easy is uninstalling a program? cd /usr/ports/www/apache13 make install make clean # cleans up after compiling make deinstall # one way to undo the install It is better to use pkg_delete rather than "make deinstall" as pkg_delete can remove what you installed, while deinstall can only do the exact version you have in ports. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message