From owner-svn-src-all@freebsd.org Thu Aug 16 01:05:41 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 619AF10769DF for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 01:05:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-it0-x22f.google.com (mail-it0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6867B8608D for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 01:05:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-it0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id 72-v6so4204659itw.3 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 18:05:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=/BAEypin/3PcM7TlEV8VQ9LiVEogkgfwM37m43KpeA8=; b=QInY2lPMGM8V58tqbuPRv6uSvJD9RXGGRSmEM4Zy44ScKkStTi1moPDblr/KVmRjb+ V7AhLp0a2QFWu/ou8A+Ign987auxiMYYBRADZVMtCMmfb4yxWsQrAYaKPkip3B9ledFh O1t9g5RhO8+LF2+qrbO/HMWklTsmaA7ahnhGfievDqJuj4Mny/xqAMQJAKqQfKfoUEQP HKYoLhcCdSGB+tLla/bZAHjJXrQYOBpCCtI1UmO4mRZQr/L6yqKjtdXP5UcJNtHjgWnJ bfNTWhb0IKFhSdMnfVTz0zfronMxK5M3qLKGKjCO7Zlmspa2vId2uyQuf7FdThIgsbyi fO1g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=/BAEypin/3PcM7TlEV8VQ9LiVEogkgfwM37m43KpeA8=; b=BYC4f3Sq4PfYgYl1njDlsKW9J7N+JqRHO+95E2vqmeV9ahD2U8Pj/d5GYqVXArFnd2 9T4TP6PJaV4fssWt0LRUGu0CQWwlKrfZQnJYAnTm+UZ+azU2EljqYoMegzX1JPBdOgay i1lGyxhqyw0r39eVVZgVLc6Y2rledKkMADS+cFlQgEZTZ10lGYX86Q5arYmp5NzPDi8w cxHC3SmCFSkoHBbJp4ErzLVyRq81g7+DtqsMRyrXb+hT04HllH9FMkN4Xwetp4NO40bP cWbNTsSNucRmFu3VEFNiTui3ihM7h2VtyAew0Slscf4u7SAWbHYV7mtDhPZqsUQ3J8Yi peiw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlH5krwi6od0OtoJi91e+saNbHlZU+QcYLo7kS31IC69V8SQCvrW iy0VWDdICkU/3DDSYPiKONwfFwJIrJ3RsCo4Fw+hJ1FTv0DiPA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA+uWPycQQ3zc6ES0XTh6ArSm/VyD82sorbFg7T72kgB/7ywS+MgqGhwpCvbB26I3o/a83lRdQt1Fsw4cIhrjeM8jFs= X-Received: by 2002:a24:3ec3:: with SMTP id s186-v6mr20006625its.73.1534381539623; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 18:05:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by 2002:a4f:257:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 18:05:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [2603:300b:6:5100:1052:acc7:f9de:2b6d] In-Reply-To: References: <201808152041.w7FKfbCU049764@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 19:05:38 -0600 X-Google-Sender-Auth: WVhJ9sCkFsJYXDOohiJsAb3QA_M Message-ID: Subject: Re: svn commit: r337826 - stable/11/bin/ls To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Ian Lepore , Kyle Evans , Adam Weinberger , svn-src-stable@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, src-committers , Ed Maste , svn-src-stable-11@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 01:05:41 -0000 On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:28 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 2:41 PM, Rodney W. Grimes < > freebsd@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > >> > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 2:28 PM, Ian Lepore wrote: >> > >> > > On Wed, 2018-08-15 at 13:26 -0700, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > Will backing out the MFC and leaving this a 12.0 feature end this? >> > > > =( >> > > > >> > > > Sadly no, as the person responded with that reaction when >> > > > they installed 12.0-ALPHA :-(. >> > > >> > > So one whiner can demand of the project that any new feature be >> removed >> > > before a new release is made? >> > > >> > >> > This is a good change. I don't see why people are so fussed about it... >> For >> > people fighting colored environments a simple unsetenv COLORTERM seems >> to >> > solve this problem no only on FreeBSD but for any other system they have >> > access to... >> >> This is exactly the dismissive attitude by FreeBSD developers that >> I was speaking to in my reply to Ian. >> > > I see how it disagrees with you, but it's not dismissive. It's just asking > for better data to support your view given that in general when all systems > do X when Y happens, except FreeBSD, we generally make FreeBSD do X when Y > unless there's a compelling reason not to. I've not seen a compelling > reason not to yet. > > Basically, why should this be different than our general pattern of being > in line with industry standards? > > It has been pointed out privately to me that I was being dismissive in the second sentence. I accept that. I'd like to apologize for that. I just took a close look at both gnu coretuils' ls code and our ls code. There's one minor difference in behavior. With gnu ls, if COLORTERM is empty, it will be ignored. With our code, we'll assume an empty value means to use colors. That difference should be fixed. This difference is clear if you look at the unit-tests from coreutils ls as well. I'll leave for others to debate the meaning of 'standard behavior' and just focus on what gnu ls does, because that's what Linux users expect, and that is what the fix was designed to implement. There's a wide variety of terminals that set this, however. For info see https://gist. github.com/XVilka/8346728 which goes into detail about it wrt COLORTERM=truecolor, but is good reading. I have a patch to make the behavior the same that I've shared that fixes this, though it's a bit ugly. There's also -color=xxx in gnu ls that would be a more complete solution, but our current ls doesn't have long options at all, so it's more of a heavy lift to merge that functionality into our ls. Warner